I Think I've Figured Out What's Going On With My Babies....

[lovezebs]

have blackspot in my week old Irish Fancy Canary chicks. I was told this is coccidiosis, how can I treat it?

“To address the black spot problem in the Irish fancy canaries: the black spot is the animal’s enlarged gallbladder, consequence of an infection, typically gastrointestinal. It is not possible that a 7 day old chick already has lesions due to coccidia, as the protozoa’s lifecycle requires more time to develop and begin causing lesions, even if the parents had passed the coccidiaon to the chicks.In the future, it would be ideal to provide the parents with monthly cycles of Nuovo GR (in the drinking water) to stimulate immune system function and help reduce bacteria levels. GR Micro should be used in the feed once the chicks are hatched. Biointegra is always a good choice, as it aids development of positive intestinal microflora which in turn boosts immune system.”For more information on the cause of black spot and how Greenvet products work to eliminate it please also see the post on black spot disease in chicks.




What causes black spot disease in chicks and how can I eliminate it?

“Typically the infection which causes the enlarged gallbladder (presented as a black spot) is in the gastrointestinal tract, passed from the parents to the chicks. Thus our GR products (Nuovo GR and GR Micro) contain a blend of extracts which help combat pathogenic bacteria and fungi in the intestine/digestive tract, as well as boost immune system function. The black spot we see is purely a visable symptom, not the actual cause of the illness and subsequent death. These infections in extremely young chicks come directly from the parents, so that’s why we suggest preventative cycles of Nuovo GR (or GR Micro) in the parents in preparation for the reproductive period. Use of GR Micro in the chicks’ feed is extremely important, as the microencapsulated powder is released directly into the duodenum, where the active ingredients are most effective against the bacteria.In light of the above, there are two additional aspects which are fundamental to eliminating proliferation of the bacteria which cause black spot and which breeders should know. First, use of a product like Biointegra to increase good intestional microflora to promote a stronger immune system and help avoid growth of infections. Second, avoiding the indescriminate use of antibiotics, which (when not necessary) debilitate the immune system, destroy good bacterial colonies in the intestine and make it much easier for the “bad”bacteria to take hold and develop.“



Like other virus diseases it is unaffected by treatment with antibiotics. Careful records and selective breeding of birds free from this problem is critical. Working with an avian vet, diagnosis can be confirmed by necropsy or by PCR (polymerase chain reaction) testing for the virus in questionable carriers. Keeping birds free from other diseases will help control the problem. A vaccine is being developed.

@Society Bird

Found some write ups, not sure if you've read them already or not, thought they might be of some interest.

[debbie276]

lovezebs
Can you post the links from where those statements came?

[Babs _Owner]

debbie276

I found the links to the articles Elana posted here

http://www.supablend.com/blackspot-week ... -treat-it/

http://www.supablend.com/black-spot-dis ... minate-it/

[debbie276]

Thanks Babs

[lovezebs]

Babs

Thanks sweetie.

[paul-inAZ]

Resident skeptic checking in here.
The links above with links to the Greenvet products go to products that have several warning flags.

First, there is the ubiquitous claim of "strengthen the immune system". That phrase is a claim for a vast number of supplements [animal and human] and is biologically meaningless unless they provide specifics. The immune system is wonderfully complex with a large number of components. Which component is "strengthened" and by how much?

Second, except for being plant extracts there is no list of ingredients. Scary.

Third, there is no scientific evidence cited for their therapies. Your hairdresser knowing someone who likes the product is not evidence of efficacy.

When it comes to therapeutics I want evidence based data and will not accept anecdotal beliefs. Show me the research data.

Unless they can provide hard evidence all of these magic potions are pure snake oil and a waste of money and time. Supplements are a multi-billion dollar industry with no visible need to provide evidence of efficacy for the product's claims.

Caveat emptor.

[SocietyBird]

paul-inAZ

Agreed. Given the fact that black spot disease has more than one cause (circovirus being one), has no known cure and will ultimately be devastating to one's flock - to present something as being a possible 'cure' is not responsible. Any time a product is being pushed should give the reader cause to question and research further.

The fact is that black spot caused by the circovirus can not be cured. It can however be managed. Birds who may be carrying the virus can be given supplements to strengthen their general dispositions physically so that they are better equipped to deal with any potential outbreak. Keeping their environment very clean, offering healthy food etc. all amounts to creating a stronger bird who will have the ability to fight off infection better than a weakened bird. Some adult birds can develop an immunity to it - as do some chicks. But then, they would be carriers and you would have to manage your flock accordingly.

There isn't a ton of information out there about it - but according to a number of university papers I've read - there are numerous studies going on now to develop an effective vaccine. (So far what they have developed has not been successful in preventing it from being passed on to chicks...)

The information in the links was good - just be weary of anything being presented as a possible 'cure'.

[SocietyBird]

There IS a positive to all this....

If this hadn't have happened, the breeder would never have known to watch for it.

All her chicks are parent raised - so when little ones get abandoned or tossed it was 'mother nature' at work - perhaps in this breeding season or next it would have become obvious that something was wrong - but how many more birds might have been infected? And how long would it have taken to determine just WHAT the problem was?

Without my having gone through the process of hand feeding and actually seeing the problem develop, the chick weakened, and then ultimately die no one would have been ever the wiser.. at least not right now.

So now she's not bringing in any new birds to her existing flock, or letting any go - and is watching for carefully for *any* sign of infection. This is a good thing. She is just as devastated and upset as we have all been.

In terms of future - the fact that it has been caught now - is a blessing for the species, and the people who love them.

Knowledge is power - if we don't know to look for something - we don't know and are happily oblivious. But when we know, we can to do the right thing for the preservation of these, and all our beautiful birds.

[debbie276]

Agreed, that's why links to your sources are important for follow-up.

The breeders losses were very high of I recall, that should have been a huge red flag. Breeders need to stop blaming birds for losses. In almost all cases chick deaths are caused by environmental or health issues. It is our responsibility to figure out what WE are doing wrong and what our birds need.

[SocietyBird]

http://www.fifecanary.org/toxoplasmosis.htm

Best article I've come across so far.

[Babs _Owner]

SocietyBird

Sigh, it seems the more you search the more you find out you can't cure it.

Thankyou, Miss, for bringing this to the community to enlighten us on this dreadful disease.

[paul-inAZ]

Society bird:
From that article, if toxoplasma also causes it, it seems that more than one organism can cause the "black spot" so that it's appearance is not pathognomonic for a specific infection. Only a sign of a nasty infection.

Mention is made of gallbladder and liver in other sites. My guess would be that the "spot" is a visible manifestation of a necrotizing cholecystitis and/or a hemorrhagic liver necrosis.

No matter the organism it is a bad scene.
Your other birds would have to be considered to be exposed and potential carriers. The thought of lifelong quarantine and isolation isn't very pleasant.

[SocietyBird]

paul-inAZ

Yes, you're exactly right. Finding out exactly what organism it might be is also not only expensive, but apparently not an easy thing to determine.

Interesting fact that a vaccine has been developed, but to date has not been been successful . . . so the research continues. Seems to be more common in canaries - gouldians and other domestic finches less so, but that could be changing...

Hopeful that a cure is found soon. In the meantime.... we have to do what we can to prevent it from being passed along to other birds.

[Babs _Owner]

paul-inAZ
Thank you for letting us know how bad this really is. And Elana, with the links...let me tell ya, she would give the "shirt off her back" (as we say here in in my town) to try and help any finch owner in a desperate situation. lovezebs was pouring through articles like crazy just to find SOMETHING/ ANYTHING to help another in need as quickly as she could. She has been a rock for me in more than one crisis. ;)

Thanks for pointing out the false, from the real data. And many of us quite frankly don't know the difference and have long forgotten our biology classes.

I'd like to see more of your posts in regards to things of this nature. Very insightful you are.

SocietyBird I know you are in a place where your Heart, and your Spirit are having a discussion (as Sally went through). If this comes to a point where you have to let them go. If I can ship over to Canada. I have never done it, but come hell and high water, you can HAVE a gouldian from me to help regain a new flock. (As long as the new finch I have is molted and someone teaches me how to do it to ensure you get your finch arriving safely). *smile*

I'll be happy to offer up one of my flock once you are sure your place is clean and ready, and my new juvie birds are strong and ready.

We are for the most part a family here as far as I am concerned.

[Babs _Owner]

SocietyBird

PS

And since you and Elana live in the same country, if I can get a bird to you and you can guarantee it's safety in your home, you have to give/deliver one of it's offspring to Elana, or she will send Bubba over here to slap me in the forehead.

**whispers** I think Bubba has a thing for her Lawd she's gonna slap me for letting the cat outta the bag.