Zebra Wobbly Head

[Animalzoo]

cindy

Is this bird passing droppings - yes. They were very runny when he went into the hospital cage and would clump at the vent. I washed him and they were yellow and white. Picture below shows an improvement.

Are you feeding grit and or eggshells? No, not in hospital but he had eggs with shell frequently and a separate pot with grit in his normal cage. After your advice yesterday I have removed the grit from all my zebras.

Can you get ronex 12% or ronivet S 12% active ingredient Ronidazole 12% - no idea! I could enquire at the pharmacy tomorrow?

nystatin came from the pharmacy not the vet. It's in liquid form. I dropped a few drops in his water yesterday but refreshed with plain clean water today.

Thanks again cindy

@lovezebs
He's actually got quite a spirit in him. I know he wants to get out and perch and just be normal but considering how I'm confining him I think he knows its in his best interest. He's not as flighty as what he was when he first went into the hospital cage so I assume he feels I'm not a threat. Today I provided a nice bowl of fresh eggs, broccoli, romain, millet and seeds. His eye lit up!



(ignore the pieces of flicked out eggs)

[cindy]

I know many feed egg shell but that to can impact and get caught in the stomach, crop and GI tract and should not be fed to parents feeding young (it is to big and jagged and can get lodged easily I smaller birds can also cut internally also...I always suggest folks powder it if they use it...especially when feeding young.

If you can get me the info off the nystatin bottle we may be able to do a ratio of nystatin to water to beak dose. Much more effective.

The fact that he is passing droppings means he is getting some nutrition.

[cindy]

I kind of summarized this for you....

The best thing would be is to have a vet do a crop swab and take a look under a microscope!

It might not do much good to move the seeds around if the crop is tight, just in case they get stuck somewhere.

Possibilities

1. It could be a tumor that can block the crop area, especially if it's down at the base of the V. You can't always see them until necropsy, because they can be just behind.

2. Sometimes birds will over eat grit or egg shell and actually get an impacted proventriculus or more likely the ventriculus. The grit won't dissolve, but egg shell dissolves over time if the pieces are small enough and the gizzard can still move enough to grind food.

3. The wall of the crop can separate a bit and form a pocket, or it can also happened where a diverticulated esophgus has a pouch where the seeds can collect. The area pops out and really looks just like it's in the crop. It is something that just is not going to heal because bacteria and fungals collected there, too.

4. If the poop is light colored or puffy, sometimes protozoa will back up the digestive system, but mostly it's a slow down rather than a bunch of seeds in the crop. Africa is probably drier, but in Australia during the rainy season coccidia becomes a big problem. It wouldn't hurt the bird to run the nystatin, sulfa-tri (Trimethoprim Sulfa Trimethoprim (20%) Sulfaquinoxaline (13%) Inactive ingredients q.s. to 100 g) and the protozoa meds.

Watch the droppings they are somewhat scant, small.

[Animalzoo]

cindy

Thats a lot of detailed information. Where to begin....

1. If it's a tumor I'm guessing there is nothing to be done and it'll be a matter of time.

2. Unlike the canaries I've noticed the zebras have never really eaten the grit or the shells. I can't guarantee he hasn't but I'm not convinced on this. However, if like you say it was egg shell then it'll clear eventually.

3. If this has happened then I'd say that the pocket has become infected and this is the dark bump and is pushing on the esophagus which is why I can see food in the normal crop underneath it. Would anti-biotics help?

4. Nystatin, sulfa-tri (Trimethoprim Sulfa Trimethoprim (20%) Sulfaquinoxaline (13%) Inactive ingredients q.s. to 100 g) and the protozoa meds........what are the Protozoa meds? Ingredients below for the Nystatin although what I have doesn't mention the above ingredients.

He's not had much food but now I'm feeding him variations it'll be interesting to compare how his poops are later.

In Spain, Nystatin is called Nistatina, Mycostatin 100.00UL/ml suspension oral. Ingrediants in Spanish...
sacarosa
etanol al 96%
carmelosa sodica (E-466)
aldehido cinamico
esencia de menta
aroma de cerezas
hidrogenofosfato de disodio
glicerol (E-422)
parahidroxibenzoato de metilo (E-218)
parahidroxibenzoato de propilo (E-216)
hidroxida de sodio
acido clorhidrico y agua purificada

And using Google Translate to English...
Nystatin Mycostatin 100.00UL / ml oral suspension
saccharose
96% ethanol
sodium carboxymethylcellulose (E-466)
cinnamic aldehyde
peppermint oil
Cherry flavor
disodium hydrogenphosphate
Glycerol (E-422)
methyl parahydroxybenzoate (E218)
Propyl parahydroxybenzoate (E-216)
sodium hidroxida
hydrochloric acid and purified water


I can't take the poor little bird to the vet. The vet bill could buy me an entire flock of zebras so it really isn't a viable option. I feel terrible admitting it to you and of course I want to get him better but if it was a tumor or something unrecoverable then it's just a ticking clock. Thanks though Cindy. You're help is so gratefully received. Thank you thank you thank you

[cindy]

the egg shell is the pieces are to big may not dissolve.

my thought is that it is either a tumor or as mentioned above....the wall of the crop has separated a bit and formed a pocket, or it can also happened where a diverticulated esophgus has a pouch where the seeds can collect. The area pops out and really looks just like it's in the crop. It is something that just is not going to heal because bacteria and fungals collected there, too.

The pocket in the wall of the crop can involve a small section only not the whole thing but it will effect how the crop works.

this is very important to note: Nystatin: mix 1/4 tsp into 4 mls of water and give some drops to the beak it will work better. It's sensitive to light so in water it will be diluted and also lose potency fast. Best to beak dose as mentioned earlier. What you mix must be kept out of the light as well as the concentrate...store your mix in a dark bottle or in a cabinet away from the light.

There is some red in the crop so you may might want to use something like the sulfa-tri or one of the sulfa as well. Could be gram neg or pos, but better to start with the gram neg antibiotic like the sulfa. Bacteria builds up when the crop is impacted.

[Animalzoo]

Hi cindy

Great I'll get on with the nystatin.

In the meantime my thoughts against a diverticulated esophgus is the lump on the neck doesn't contain food. Its dark and hard and permanently there. So I'm thinking tumor.

If I mix up the nystatin and feed direct to the beak are we talking about via a syringe to force it into an open mouth? I'd just dispose of any left over wouldn't I?

I don't know what you mean about the sulfa. Is this an antibiotic? The chemist I spoke to wanted to sell me amoxicillin for children. Do I look for a specific named treatment?

note: my avian vet speaks little English and I don't speak spanish. I could visit him but there is no way I can explain all of this to him. He simply wouldn't understand but may sell me an antibiotic if I gave him a name or product for instance.


Also, sad news. The hen who got left to rear the chicks hasn't coped. She's exhausted. I found 2 dead chicks this morning but as I have another zebra pair and society pair with chicks similar in age I've fostered the remaining 3 out. She's toppling off perches and is complete mess. Nest is removed, shes bathed and is now also resting.

This afternoon I'm tempted to put my boy back in with the hen for the 2 to recuperate. I'll never breed this boy ever again and I realise it may just be a waiting game for him to die. Poor thing.

[lovezebs]

Animalzoo

Oh Sue......

So now you have two babies who are unwell. What is going on with your girl? A female who is healthy, should not have had any major problems caring for her chicks.

Sending hugs your way, and best wishes for your little couple.

[Animalzoo]

lovezebs
She's not ill Elana I think it was just a busy nest. 5 babies!
She'll be ok after some chill out time so it's r+r for her now. I'm quite gutted 2 have died though considering I won't breed the dad again.

The other zebra couple have 3 babies (they were the ones who were tossing eggs remember?) and they are so chilled in comparison. They sit outside the nest a lot, preen each other and just hop about nicely. They've taken to the 2 new babies I've put in as they're fed. All the babies are fed it's a nice breeding setup. I think they'll be a tad busier now hehe

These 2 poorly ones seemed frantic so I think they have just overdone it. I've not moved the boy yet, but what do you think I should do with the nystatin that Cindy talked about. Feed via syringe into the mouth or spoon or what?

[cindy]

ok if the hen is ill and you lost two chicks and dad has issues there is something else going on, hens in good health can raise a small clutch completely on their own... I suspect parasites/protozoa. Parent birds can be carriers. I would use caution in fostering out their young to healthy birds since the parents if carrying anything can pass this along to the babies which can pass it to fosters.

Nystatin is given to the side of the beak to the base of the beak where the upper and lower beak meak..do not force the nystatin in or you will aspirate the bird... if a tumor or diverticulated esophgus you will be doing comfort care on the bird... he may get to the point where he slows down.

On sick or deceased babies you need to look at the bellies of the babies... you are looking for cloudy white and light yellow patches under the skin swollen bellies.

[Animalzoo]

cindy How would I treat protozoa?

The babies who died had empty crops and I have since disposed of them to inspect. I assumed it was just starvation. I didnt think 5 babies is a small clutch

I'll check the live babies tomorrow, everyone has been put to bed.

[cindy]

depends what kind most here use ronex 15 or ronivet s 12% as mentioned earlier it contains Ronidazole 12%

Trimethoprim Sulfa Trimethoprim will cover coccidia. It also contains an antibiotic and is safe to use o babies.

Do not use Baytril or the generic form on babies under the age of 21 days.

The parents may have been carrying a parasite/protozoa and passed it to the young, since the young have immature immune systems they succumb to the parasite/protozoa faster and become ill. Parent birds can sense this and will stop feeding/not waste time feeding sick offspring.

[Animalzoo]

cindy
I checked the chicks. No white or yellow patches under the skin or swelling anywhere. They're still with foster parents and getting well fed. I'm checking them often and for now they seem ok.

Mum and dad are back together in a small cage for their r+r although visually I doubt one would call it relaxation. The 2 of them are in a poorly dreamy world of their own.

Dad still has the lump, is head wobbling after eating and I can see still has laboured breathing.

Mum is fluffed up and always trying to nap/sleep with her head curled round her back. I checked her for lumps but shes ok.

I have Coccivet so have added this to their water but it's the only medicine and I can do. It's Easter weekend! Not sure about the US but Spain closes for business Fri-Mon. I can't even investigate ronex or ronivet until Tuesday now.

They have seed and today I allowed some egg (minus shell) and they seemed to really go for it. They sit perched together fluffed up and I'm sure I'm seeing the boy droop his head as he doses off.

Parasites and lumps or not, I doubt these 2 little birds have got long. It's actually terribly sad but I need to figure out what they have in case it could spread to others. How would they have caught the parasites in the first place? No other birds in my flock are infected and they were in a separate cage alone.

[Spreckles]

The baking soda may bubble it loose. Could you find any ratios for mixture? Nystatin is harmless for treating yeast sounds like an impaction . has anyone ever removed an impaction? Suction syringe? Gently of course?
Coca cola will bust loose most anything. I wonder if he would drink some?

[Spreckles]

Ps Cindy knows her stuff good advice.

[Spreckles]

Ps Cindy knows her stuff good advice. This is so sad I am sorry