coccidiosis/Protozan infection

[lovemyfinch]

Wonderful to hear that everyone ois one the mend.

[batuhan]

Hi All,
First of all I am not a veterinerian...
one of my veterinerian friend told me for the coccidiosis, the best is Baycox...
I never use medicine for my birds unless they get sick...

batuhan

[monotwine]

Thanks for that Batuhan.

I lost a Bengalese today. One of the youngsters. I think perhaps it’s the after effects of the bacteria/protozoa disease. Even after treatment and follow up treatment the young are looking wasted away. It could be that I did not treat them soon enough and the disease damaged their livers? What are your thoughts/experiences on this scenario?

The other birds look fine, just the Bengalese and Silverbills that look skinny. I will do another follow up treatment starting this sat. That is the recommended 7 days between treatment dates.
Do you know of any other disease that would cause them to waste away like what is happening to my youngsters? They have no fat/muscle on keel at all. Hollow and skinny. I checked on web and could only find wasting away disease “going light”, protozoa/bacterial diseases and canker. I don’t think they have canker but if this continues I will take some of the birds to the vet for checking with crop wash and stool samples (which are unreliable). So far all recommended treatments for all the diseases possible are what I have given, so I can only hope its an after long term effect and not a resistant strain of disease. I hate little parasites.

[cindy]

Perhaps they have a bacterial infection that is secondary to the parasite. I found this article, I am not sure if you have seen this yet:

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... glight.mgi

This article is the most informative, go down to the title about how it is passed especially to baby birds. The cysts live in the droppings and as the chicks poke around and learn to eat they are ingesting the cysts. They may have missed the effects of the treatment if they were still being fed by their parents at the time of the treatment. They may have some damage to their gut making it had for them to eat or drink. Dosing again may help.

http://www.nativebirds.co.uk/index.php? ... &Itemid=28

The article mentions using creosote but I don't think that is a good ideal since they used it in rail road ties years ago and it may be considered a cancer causing agent.

[monotwine]

Thank you Cindy, very informative.

ESB3® is currently the cocci medication I use. So I am glad to know it is one of the best.

I have not treated for any other form of bacteria, so perhaps that may be my problem. I just did not want to bombard my aviary with too much meds.
I have used meds with rondizole (ronivet type), cocci, Ivemective for parasites, worm away.

I think my poor finches don't know whats hit them in the last two months. from next to nothing to all these additives to their drinking water.

The damage caused by the protozoa/cocci disease as stated in that article (stomach/gut lining to internal organs) is quite likely an option to why my young are looking bad but not parents.
thank you for posting it.

[cindy]

Your welcome. You may want to give them some probiotics to help restore some of the flora in their gut after you treat with antibiotics. It worked wonders for my owls when I treated them.

I hope that the young will recover for you. I know how concerned you are for them.

[monotwine]

Yes I have done so, but forgot to mention it. My poor finches have no idea about all the additives. They just drink their water as usual. Thankfully.

[cindy]

I hope things turn around for you soon. This must be so stressful not only on the birds but on you also.

[monotwine]

Thank you very much for your concern Cindy.

Yes it is rather stressful. I must admit. From never having any problem to this. It does make sense though as I read symptoms and life cycles etc. The protozoan is spot on time in my 2-3year breeding cycle. Blasted little micro jobs.
Learning quickly though and from now on they will get preventative meds before breeding season as per suggestions.

Thanks for all the forums help. It has been a huge help in giving good advice on how to help my finches.

[batuhan]

I know one thing about this;
Follow the nature:
hygiene/cleanness
natural/inartificial foods
natural air,light,temperature,humidity= Healthy birds

pellet foods
medical foods(all antibiotics or vitamins and others)
all artificial things =sick birds=dead birds
why do not die my birds ?
because I always try to follow the NATURE

batuhan

[monotwine]

Thanks batuhan,

I don't even think we get pelleted food for finches here! Not that I would bother in anycase with that.
I too try to keep my aviary as natural as possible, but as with all things sometimes birds get illness and need treating.
I got this, I think, from a pet shop bought bird that was a carrier with the sickness in him, but not making him sick. So he passed on the problem to all my birds, even after quarantine (then I did not treat for protozoa).
Now I just need to continue treating my birds for this problem until the end of the breeding cycle to prevent my young birds from contracting the disease.
I would rather use medicine than nothing and let all those poor birds die an aweful death of slow starvation.

Thanks for your concern though. Trust me I cannot wait for a time when I am not having to add medication to their water. Such as it is now I am only having to do it once a month or so. So far all my birds seem 100% and are breeding again.

The young birds I kept back from sales and after making sure they were not getting worse decided to give them to a pet home. They actually started to put on a little weight. They were delivered today and their new owner knows the problem etc and was willing to take them as they were. The young were causing problems in my aviary as they were all males and starting to interbreed with my Bicheno. They are gone now to a happy home to live out their lives.

[Sally]

So glad this is getting under control. I agree that it is great to go the natural route when possible. I hate using meds, but thank goodness we have them available when we need them. Medicine has come so far for both humans and pets. My grandmother died of tuberculosis in the 1930's because there were no medicines for it then--they put her in a sanatorium, isolated, treated with lots of sun and an eggnog-like drink--today there is no reason for someone to die of TB. Sorry, a bit off topic, but my point was that if there is a medicine that can help, why not use it.

[HoangQuan]

I think Sally is right.
And batuhan, even when Im agree with you, I must say that your ideal bird keeping method is great, but c'mon, we can never provide them what they need, no matter where we keep them in. I keep birds in a planted outdoor aviary, full supply with sunlight, water..but sometimes birds still get sick. It's not just that simple about "following narute" cuz after all, our birds are still in captivity, and that, somehow, affect their health in some way...Using vitamins and medicines in case needed will not cause any harm, I think.
Monotwine: Im so glad to hear your birds are recovering and doing well. congrats!

[cindy]

Batuhan

Pellets!!! There is nothing wrong with pellets. I stood in front of a highly qualified Avian vet last week, She has years of study and experience along with a degree. She said the pellets now a days are so complete there is need for very little to add to a birds diet. We can give them seed. We can suplement with veggies, egg foods and let them pick at Herbs and calcium as they see the need to take it in. I am pretty sure my vet would not tell me to feed something (pellets) to my finches/lovebird that would equal death.

I have used pellets for years, I currently feed it in conjunction with seed to my finches. My female lovebird only gets pellets no seed since seeds contain fat, increased fat induces the need to lay eggs. (this came directly from the vet).

I also find the more pellets the bird eats the less seed it requires, most likely because it's nutrition needs are being met.

Sally, I am so very sorry your grandmother had to go through what she did. My father is an Immunologist/microbiologist with a medical research background...the strides and accomplishments in how far treatments have come in the medical field since then is astonishing. Look at how many lives are saved on a daily basis. The same holds true in veterinary medicines. We do indeed medicines so people and animals do not suffer needlessly.

Monotwine...sorry for the sight diversion from your topic. I wish your birds a speedy recovery.

[debbie276]

Not arguing for or against pellets but...
Let face it all animals live to reproduce. In good times they breed and in lean times they rest till food is plentiful again. Just makes me stop and think if a vet is telling you to feed pellets and stop giving seeds so they stop reproducing, are you not causing them to think it's lean times. And I have no doubt that there is enough nutrition in the pellets to keep them alive.
I understand the need to control their reproductive cycle especially when there is a problem, just makes me think.