Bloody Diarrhea in Gouldian-- Update 4/1 w/ Video

[Domenic]

Laraine emailed me back and believes it is Coccidiosis. She said she recommends Trimethaprim Sulfa. I have not heard back from Kristen.

I am beginning to believe it is Coccidiosis too because two societies were in the cage with the gouldian hen and they are both completely unscathed. Perhaps they are carriers of this and gave it to the hen. But how did they hen get over it if it is Coccidiosis?

[CandoAviary]

Oh my, I did not realize you had them with societies. Did you have your male with the society before you bought the hen? Was the hen reared by societies?
Birds can be carriers, not just societies but possibly your female gouldian may be a carrier. Some subcomb to the illness, some birds have a stromg enough immune system to regain health and some become carriers of this. I hope you can get it all straightened out.
A good quanentine procedure can save your flock, save money, save time, and save you from unnecessary worry.

[Domenic]

I agree Candace, I will quarantine my birds now regardless of where they come from.

The hen and the societies have no relations, both were adults and were in the same cage when I got them. The male gouldian has never seen the societies. They are in their own fostering cage.

[nixity]

Make sure we are not confusing coccidiosis, which is a relatively common avian disease, with campylobacter and/or cochlosoma which are two 'wet' diseases that societies can be carriers of which are usually lethal to gouldian babies if fostered by the infected societies.

Coccidiosis is generally not lethal unless the birds are in seriously deplorable conditions and have been sick with it for a long time (and are symptomatic).
Cocci can be carried by nearly all birds and not show any signs until the birds are stressed or become otherwise ill. Most birds' immune systems can handle a small amount of the organisms but as with yeast, stress reduces the birds' immune system so that the begin to multiply and affect the birds.
Usually if the birds are not symptomatic then they also are not shedding the oocysyts (at least not in large numbers) so it is harder for them to infect others.
The organism is usually associated with warm, humid conditions and typically also in conjunction dirty cage conditions (contaminated or open drinkers/feeders, dirty perches and cage bottoms, etc.)

I personally recommend Baycox to treat because I know for a fact it works.
But if it IS Cocci you have a long road of de-contamination ahead of you because the oocysts can survive just about anything.
Hot bleach water and dring in the sun for all cages, dishes, perches, etc.. throughout and after treatment is done.

:/

[Domenic]

Will Baycox help with coccidiosis, campylobacter, or cochlosoma? This is very stressful. Perhaps I should just put him on probiotics and hope he can fight this on his own.

[cindy]

Domenic, I would treat the bird andpossibly any other bird in contact with him with medication then follow it up with probiotics. Coccidia is not something you want to fool with and if any have it and raise young, you could loose the young. I can lay dormant in the body for a long time and stress can bring it out. I can also lay dorant in the environment and become active so cleaning is very important.

This article is in regards to dogs, it is very informative. Coccidia can be spread to humans, dogs, cats, birds. Treatment and prevention/disinfecting is the only way to cure and prevent it from coming back. I do not know if what is recommended for dogs can be used on birds. Others can help you out with this.

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beagleh ... diosis.htm

[MLaRue]

No - Baycox is only for Coccidiosis. It is a two day treatment and STINKS HORRIBLE!!!

Campylobacter is treated with Erthromycin

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/produc ... omycin.mgi

Cochlosoma is treated with Ronivet

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_ronivets.mgi

[Domenic]

Laraine said she would treat him for coccidiosis, but the medication will have adverse effects on him if he does not have coccidiosis. Are the symtoms of cocci similar to the symptoms of campylobacter and cochlosoma? It's strange that my societies were unaffected yet they were in the same cage as the gouldian hen for quite a while before I got her.

Can the bird strain of coccidiosis be transmitted to humans? Dogs?

Cindy - I would like to start treatment but I am afraid I will do more harm than good to Judah since I am very unsure of what is wrong with him. I also have to face the fact that I don't have any money to buy medication with. I literally have to sell zebra chicks just to raise it. I acted very irresponsible and childishly impatient when I didn't quarantine the hen, and now Judah is paying the price....

[nixity]

So many diseases share similar symptoms that it's really hard to say definitively that it's this or that without knowing for sure.

Cocci is something that is VERY easy to find in a fecal. Campy is a bacteria so you'd need a gram stain or a culture done by a vet that does this kind of stuff, and cochlosoma is a protozoa which are ALWAYS hard to find in a fecal because they are moving organisms - so unless the bird is severely infected you have to be looking at the right spot at the right time to see them.

I'm not sure what you mean by the societies being in the same cage as the hen before you got her..
I guess I'm confused about the time line of events and the period of quarantine that took place.. who was brought in/new, when they were placed together, and who got sick and when.. I'm sure it's in the beginning of the thread but I have a raging headache from being around family all day ;)

But.. I will say this.. I NEVER, EVER EVER keep societies with Gouldians even when I KNOW they are clean.

Even when I moved, my societies were moved in their own cage rather than just combining the birds together.

[Domenic]

It's actually pretty simple. The person I got the birds from had the societies and the gouldian hen in the same cage together. I brought both home and the societies went into a permanent cage by themselves, the gouldian hen went into my aviary with the rest of my birds. The gouldian hen became sick, she was put in a hospital cage. The male gouldian in the aviary with her became sick the next day and then he was put in the hospital cage. Both have been there since and have not seen the societies.

[CandoAviary]

Make sure we are not confusing coccidiosis, which is a relatively common avian disease, with campylobacter and/or cochlosoma
:/

I sure did get confused...I misread the cocci as cochlo Thinking it was from the societies Too many diseases that start with "C"

[cindy]

Domenic, I would just keep the area clean and wash you hands well after handling anything from either set of birds. I would feed and tend to the your other birds first, wash your hands then tend to the societies and gouldians, just a precaution since it is unclear what exactly is going on.

Dogs can pick coccidia up from the ground, a dog park, etc. Unless your dogs are licking the cages or the floor say if the finches hang on the bars and poop droppings on the floors I would not worry about it right at the moment. You could call your vet and explain what is going on with the birds and ask if they can get it. It is opportunistic and can infect humans, dogs and other bird if ingested. The article explains it pretty well.

Just keep the area clean maybe keep the dogs from the birds until you know what you are dealing with.

Cali, one of my dogs had it when we first got her, our vet tested the puppies coming from the breeder and found high counts of coccidia in the puppies' stool. (we found out later he was really the broker and lead us to believe she was one of his puppies)

The "breeder/broker" paid for her medication since we purchased her, he was at the vets with us for Cali's check up and paid for her first visit. (We later found out Cali came from a mill in Missouri, brought down to Florida with dozen of other puppies from different mills to brokers and stores in our area). I was not about to return her to the broker for him to treat her and return her to us when well, I opted to treat her and get her well myself. She was very ill and we had to treat her for weeks to clear it up. Where she soiled had to be cleaned up and disinfected right away to make sure the cysts could not survive and come back later to infect the dogs.

We tested both our other dogs and Cali after her treatment and again 2 weeks later to make sure it was gone. It was work to manage it but it was worth getting her better and keeping the other dogs from getting it.

Domenic, first you need to be certain of what you are dealing with so don't panic. Can you have you regular vet read a stool sample from the gouldian? Would he be willing to help you with that?

[Sally]

Domenic, so sorry you are going thru this with your Gouldian. I have been very lucky in that I've had little disease in my flock, so I am pretty inexperienced when it comes to diagnosing illness. Luckily, there are others on here who are so knowledgeable to help you. Hope your little boy gets better soon.

[JohnBoy]

Domenic, so sorry you are going thru this with your Gouldian. I have been very lucky in that I've had little disease in my flock, so I am pretty inexperienced when it comes to diagnosing illness. Luckily, there are others on here who are so knowledgeable to help you. Hope your little boy gets better soon.

Same here Sally. I rarely have a sick bird. And when one dies I just assume it is from natural cause like old age or perhaps shock.

[Domenic]

Kristen emailed me back with a very informative answer addressing every symptom Judah has. She believes it could be worms or a protozoa and recommends I treat with Ronex and apple cider vinegar, and then treat with Worm Away. Tiffany or Misty, do you have these products for sale? I am awaiting her response before I purchase them, but I want to know where I am ordering them from now.