Listerine and/or Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)?

[CandoAviary]

I agree, it is hard to worry about changing bird waters everyday when you have large numbers in individual cages. Anything we can learn to keep the water cleaner longer is of great interest to me. I have tried many ways before but have never conducted an evaluation under the scope.... Thanks for your deeper insight. I always enjoy learning more about bird husbandry

[kenny66]

Hello every one... The following is my own study regarding :
What is the best material that can be used to keep bird drinking and bath water clean ?
(ACV or Listerine or Dettol ) ?
Well they all work as water disinfectant, but each item has different power to keep the water clean longer time than the other.

I have made several test under the microscope to find out what is the less harmful material and the best to sanitize the bird water and to keep it clean for the longest time, so i came up with the following results:

ACV
When adding one drop of ACV to 8.oz of 100% clean water placed in open water dish :
1) ACV will work great to keep the water clean just for 16 hours before bacteria, virus,s and cyst start created in it .
This method will work great for a bird keeper with only few birds placed in few cages that is easy for him/her to change the water daily.
2) ACV will be able to sanitize water infected with almost 10% of bacteria, but will not be able to sanitize the water when it contain big number of bacteria .
3) ACV or Apple (provided daily) to a bird will burn his normal body fat that he need to keep all the time, but let us say it did not!!!! thats mean your bird is receiving extra fat food through his diet which is ACV unable to burn it all .... But as soon as you stop providing your bird with ACV or Apple daily, Fat will start build in his body and this is where the bird become over weight .


(Listerine and Dettol )
As i explained above by using the microscope to test the bird water i found Listerine and Dettol is the best material i have used to sanitize the water and to keep it clean for long time.

Do not believe me if i tell you that i change my canaries water bottles every day, because if i do so, i have to change over 130 drinking water bottle every day during the breeding season so, Who can do that !!!!!!! ?
These 2 materials has proved under the microscope that it has the power to kill any type and number of bacteria that can live in the water as soon as become attached with it also, will keep the water 100% free of bacteria over 9 days especially when using bird drinking water bottle not open water dish .
Water bottle will not allow dust,feather, seed,and bird poops to get in to the water .
This method will work great for breeder with big number of birds As (birds farm) or for bird keeper with few birds and cages but do not have enough time to change the water daily.

Thanks for reading my final comment regarding this subject, i wish you and your bird a happy, healthy and long life.

Dean K.

I found your research intriguing. I would be interested in knowing about your scientific area of expertise (which area you are specialising in) and the test trial conditions under which you carried out these tests. I would like to carry out the same trials under controlled conditions in company with a lab friend of mine.

[Rour]

Well very interesting to hear peoples replies on the subject. To understand that algae is a living organism and such as all living organisms there is good and bad, Green algae is what I normally have in the dish but if a red to pink colour starts is definitely time to clean bowl. If I'm correct algae is related to seaweed that's food for thought.
Cindy the answer is yes and no some finches try and scrape some of the algae off the sides while others don't even worry about it. Is it good for them I don't really know as I'm not a person that can/does research (a person of science) but i would guess that if i could grow it where it may cover the water instead of growing on the sides then i may find a result worth talking about but that much algae may become dangerous with to many organisms.
As stated by Dayna that if living conditions are kept completely sanitary then problems will arise once given/sold to somebody else which doesn't keep these conditions or if they some how slack off in their hygiene practices ,i beleive that good hygine practices are important but not going to the extreme as alittle bit of mess is good to help their immunesystem fight against certain bugs which they will encounter. If hygine is very sterile like in hospitals will birds contract a super bug like us humans can get?. Sorry to slide off topic.
Now for ACV i like to use the organic version so would this be considered as a chemical, I've never really thought of it like that.

This is interesting! In our salt water fish tank, we use algae for the same purpose (purification and oxygenation of water). The green algae we keep, the red algae we throw out. Algae grows very quickly in wet conditions under strong light.

[Sally]

This is a very interesting debate, with many different viewpoints expressed. It highlights how many ways there are to care for our birds, depending on climate, environment, species of birds, time and money available, and on and on.

I would like to remind newbies that each of you will have to work out your own program, what works best for you. There is a lot of information available to you on this forum, but it is not written in stone. What works for me would not necessarily work for anyone else. Caring for my birds is constantly evolving. When I look back at some of my methods five years ago, I am appalled!

And now I'll add another angle to this debate! I use the Mike Fidler method of watering my birds. I have 50+ tube waterers which I scrubbed each day and filled with fresh water. Now I have buckets of diluted Virkon-S water in my birdrooms. I take down all the tube waterers, dumping out all the old water. I then take out clean waterers from the Virkon-S buckets (draining but not rinsing them), fill with clean water, and replace on the cages. Then I take the empty old waterers and place them in the Virkon-S solution. They soak in those buckets till the next day, when I repeat the process. After one week, the solution is no longer viable, and so I fill the buckets with clean fresh solution and start the process all over again.

I used to scrub all the waterers when I did this weekly change-out of the Virkon-S solution, but now I am just continuing on without scrubbing, except the occasional waterer that gets dirty enough to need scrubbing. I haven't been doing this long enough to say whether or not I may have to make some changes, but so far, I love it! So much time saved, waterers are staying clean, birds are happy, so Mom is happy!

[CandoAviary]

Sally, having the extra water tubes does save so much time. I do the same thing but I use bleach water in the buckets.
Dean uses the closed bottle with the ball type so I imagine the water stays much cleaner longer becase birds can't get stuff in the openings as easy. I am considering switching to these valve type waterers Dean also only raises canaries which drink more water than most of the finches that we keep. My canaries drink at least 4 times as much as my gouldians. And my grasskeets and hookbills have figured out how to dirty any water, in any kind of resepticle by stuffing seeds into them they are constantly getting changed
You are right in that we all have to find the routine that works best for us.... and that doesn't mean that you won't change that routine at some point. Like you, I have changed so many times over the years with new information I learn and with new products that on the market.

[cindy]

This is a very interesting debate, with many different viewpoints expressed. It highlights how many ways there are to care for our birds, depending on climate, environment, species of birds, time and money available, and on and on.

I would like to remind newbies that each of you will have to work out your own program, what works best for you. There is a lot of information available to you on this forum, but it is not written in stone. What works for me would not necessarily work for anyone else. Caring for my birds is constantly evolving. When I look back at some of my methods five years ago, I am appalled!

And now I'll add another angle to this debate! I use the Mike Fidler method of watering my birds. I have 50+ tube waterers which I scrubbed each day and filled with fresh water. Now I have buckets of diluted Virkon-S water in my birdrooms. I take down all the tube waterers, dumping out all the old water. I then take out clean waterers from the Virkon-S buckets (draining but not rinsing them), fill with clean water, and replace on the cages. Then I take the empty old waterers and place them in the Virkon-S solution. They soak in those buckets till the next day, when I repeat the process. After one week, the solution is no longer viable, and so I fill the buckets with clean fresh solution and start the process all over again.

I used to scrub all the waterers when I did this weekly change-out of the Virkon-S solution, but now I am just continuing on without scrubbing, except the occasional waterer that gets dirty enough to need scrubbing. I haven't been doing this long enough to say whether or not I may have to make some changes, but so far, I love it! So much time saved, waterers are staying clean, birds are happy, so Mom is happy!

Sally, so you are basically rotating the tubes, 1 batch of tubes soaking while the others are being used. My vet told me something about VirkonS long time ago but at the time I had one Gray and a few parrotlets so I opted for the swap and replacement of bowls and dishes, cleaning the dirty ones in a bleach solution and air drying over night. Needless to say my bird numbers are not that small now. I know there are certain (not sure of the correct word) orgnisms that are double coated and bleach may not be totally effective on so your method may be more effective.

As far as us touching it, smelling it is it less caustic than bleach?
Can you get this at feed stores or do you order it? Do you use it to clean out cages, wash perches?

http://www2.dupont.com/Emergency_Diseas ... 0Sheet.pdf

[Sally]

I used the Edstrom Water Buddy (I don't know if they are still being made, they quit making them at one time). A friend used that particular brand, which they preferred to all others, with complete success. I was in love with them, so easy to use and fill, water stayed completely clean, no birds trying to bathe in their drinking water tube. But then I almost lost several birds, they couldn't seem to figure it out and so became dehydrated. It happened when I was gone quite a bit and skipped baths for the birds for a day or two. I realized what was happening just in time and saved them, but it scared me.

[CandoAviary]

Thanks Sally, I found a place that sells them...I must say these are some unique looking bottles. I guess you have to make sure your birds will use them before removing other waterers.... that is always the challenge. Did you find that the birds just didn't adjust to the new type or was it that they became jammed and the birds could not get the water while you were away?
Do you still use any or do you use the water tubes... I use the long lip water tubes. I have several of the closed valve type that I sell here at the store...some customers prefer them...
http://woodlandbird.com/text/WBuddy.html

[Sally]

Cindy, yes I basically rotate the tubes. The soaking buckets that I use are the buckets kitty litter comes in, so I have a lid to put on the bucket to keep out feathers, etc.

I use the Virkon-S mostly for this purpose with the water tubes, plus all my handfeeding supplies soak in a Virkon-S solution between feedings when I am handfeeding. Those supplies I do rinse before using.

My dishes, feeders, etc., just either go in the dishwasher or get handwashed in the sink, using only detergent and air-dried. I have also used the Virkon-S solution to wipe down cages, etc., for disinfectant purposes.

I don't find it caustic, though it probably has a warning on the label (I am particularly careless about myself when handling chemicals ). I have no problems putting my bare hands in the buckets of solution.

I ordered mine online, I got the 10# bucket, which lasts a long time. Can't remember where I ordered, might have been fabulousfinch. Sorry, I cannot tell a lie, I use a LOT of different vendors.

[dfcauley]

I also use the Vikron. I absolutely love that stuff!!! I ordered a big container of the powder and must say it was somewhat expensive. But it takes so little that it will last me two years! (or longer)

I use it to wash my water dishes. No tubes for me in the aviary so I use open dishes which they drink and bathe from. I change it twice a day wiping it out with a rag dipped in Vikron water. (thanks to hubby for helpling once a day with this) Then once a week I soak the dishes in the diluted Vikron water.

I also use the Vikron for soaking seeds.

Then in goes pure, clean water. No additives! That's how I do it.

[Sally]

Donna, thanks for reminding me, I use the Virkon-S for soaking seeds. In fact, that was the reason I got the stuff in the first place, so I could try the Mike Fidler method of soaked seeds! I too love this stuff!

[Sally]

Candace, I never had a problem with the Water Buddy not working. It was individual birds that couldn't seem to work it. I had several Gouldians, back when I had Gouldians, and I also found several smaller waxbills that weren't drinking. I didn't realize at first, because the water level went down in the Buddy, but these cages had multiple birds, so most were drinking, but I could have lost the exceptions.

Yes, I use the long lip water tubes that Bird Supply of NH sells. Really like these, less likely than the old ones to crack the tube when I drop them, and I do drop water tubes often!

[Sally]

I was just reminded that the smell of the powdered Virkon-S reminds me of Tang! The youngsters won't know what I'm talking about, but it was big way back when! Never did like that stuff (Tang), but isn't that what the first astronauts had to drink? The smell of the powder is fairly strong, but the solution smell is mild.

[cindy]

Cindy, yes I basically rotate the tubes. The soaking buckets that I use are the buckets kitty litter comes in, so I have a lid to put on the bucket to keep out feathers, etc.

I use the Virkon-S mostly for this purpose with the water tubes, plus all my handfeeding supplies soak in a Virkon-S solution between feedings when I am handfeeding. Those supplies I do rinse before using.

My dishes, feeders, etc., just either go in the dishwasher or get handwashed in the sink, using only detergent and air-dried. I have also used the Virkon-S solution to wipe down cages, etc., for disinfectant purposes.

I remember Tang....they still had it on the market when my girls were little.

I don't find it caustic, though it probably has a warning on the label (I am particularly careless about myself when handling chemicals ). I have no problems putting my bare hands in the buckets of solution.

I ordered mine online, I got the 10# bucket, which lasts a long time. Can't remember where I ordered, might have been fabulousfinch. Sorry, I cannot tell a lie, I use a LOT of different vendors.

Thank you Sally, I may stop using bleach to to sterilize my tubes, dishes etc with. I'll do a product search and find a place close by that supplies it.

[dfcauley]

Cindy,

I have it saved in my favorites at home. I will send you the link.....