FINCHforum

She looked just fine yesterday, flying and eating.
Then I found her dead this morning.

I felt around her breastbone and it was thin.
So despite that it looked like she was eating, she wasn't eating enough.

This goes back to the problem of seed hulls on the seeds. These 2 hens leave a layer of seed hulls on the seeds, vs. my others that scatter the hulls. And they don't dig down below the hulls. I blow off the hulls a couple times a day, but that apparently did not give her enough time to eat before the seeds were again covered with a layer of hulls. Next time I'm going to use 2 seed dishes to give them access to more seeds before they are covered with hulls.

Sorry for your loss. Going thin may have been from other problems and not from lack of seed. Though it is always wise to have an extra dish of food available.
She may have been suffering from a disease that along with the stress of moving brought it to the forferont. Fortunately since she was in quarentine you may have prevented your other birds health.
Many times a bird bought that appears healthy can go down quickly when coping with change. Sometimes it's hard to see a finches true health... always best to quarentine and let the truth be revealed before adding the newbies to your established stock. Better to find illnesses while in quarentine than later

So sorry Gary

So sorry for your loss, Gary

Gary, sorry for your loss of your hen. I hope this article from Lady gouldian proves helpful.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... glight.mgi

Were you treating them with anything while in quarantine? I usually deworm, then use Ronivet S, then probioticsfor 3 to 7 days. I also do Cocci-care. During that time I give them seed, pellets which they all down and greens, Herb salad.

I quarantine with a full cocktail, since I don't know the conditions they come from:
- SCATT
- Baycox
- Ronivet-S
- Worm Away

Just finished the last Baycox treatment and getting ready for the last Worm Away treatment.

Candace, from what you say, I need to catch the other hen and check that she is not going light. She is a smaller hen than the one that died, and would not have as much internal reserves to call on.

I'm sorry for your loss

None of those meds would cover a bacterial or a fungal problem and most likely her problem - they are the slow killers.

Gary, without testing the dead bird or having any fecal smears it is hard to know what to treat for...
BayCox is for parasitic infections.... If it is a bacteria or protozoal infection then I would recommend trimethoprime/Sulfa
Trimethoprime is an antibiotic and is often used in combination with a sulfa drug. The combination is used to treat susceptible bacterial and protozoal infections in pets.
Use Caution when dosing with any type bacteria to always follow up with a probiotic. The antibiotics will kill off the bennificial bacteria that live in your finches body along with the bad that you are trying to rid. The lack of these bennificial bacterias can allow the yeast to grow out of porportion and this can make your finch just as sick...
Because of this, I usually use antibiotics as a last resort or if the poop or smears reveal a need to treat.
The bird in the same cage may not be sick, Many birds have strong immune systems that can defend against many bacteria.....
So threatment is a judgment call, but if it were my bird I would catch her up and feel her breast bone...If she is going light I would definately try the treatment. Sometimes once they are too far light, it will be hard to save them no matter what. If she has good meat on her breast then I would probably not treat but would add some probiotics to the diet and extend the quarentine for further observation. I would also monitor the poop. If you don't have a microscope then you can just put white paper under the sleeping perch... you want semi solid food colored or black and white color. No green or excess water....
The other bird may have had complications from the meds already administered... many breeders/brokers keep their birds on antibiotics to keep them alive until sale. Sometimes these drugs can build up and then we treat with our own quarentine cocktails and sometimes the birds systems just can't take it.
Hopefully the hen is fine It is very possible one bird in a cage can fall victim while the others in the same cage never do.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_ts.mgi

I'm so sorry for your loss, you have my condolences. I have never heard of such a thing, starving because the seed hulls covered up the dish too much. Is that normal...? I think there's definitely something else that killed it, rather than starvation.

Again, I am sorry for your loss and I wish you well!

Candace
I don't have Trimethoprime. I think the antibiotic I have is from MB, I think it is Amotex? I am pretty sure that I also have a jar of probiotic.
The poop of the other bird "seems" OK. In fact the poop from both birds looked OK.
Hmmmm is it possible that SCATT is too strong a medication and I should switch back to S76?

I was trying to avoid giving antibiotics during qurantine, per Laraines earlier quarantine procedure.


Ebibchua
The seed hulls appear to stop them from eating. As soon as I blow the hulls off and put the seed dish back in the cage, they dove to the dish to eat. So it appears that if they cannot see the seeds, they don't think it is there.

I agree, I don't like to use antibiotics unless their is a reason. If the poop looks fine I would just observe and by all means add more feeders if you think that it starved. Finches are bad about not eating past the hulls. I use 7 inch throughs and several to a cage. These allow the seed to be shallow yet widespread. I never used small deep cups or many of the selffeeders because of that.
Hope all stays well with your bird.

I use scatt on canaries but not on finches. I know many people do and they say it's safe but I lost a few finches when I treated with it years ago. May have been coincidence of maybe I overdosed but I never had any problems with applying iverlux or from S76 in the water. Maybe if the bird was weak the treatment was too much for it? Who knows?