Coccidia...Cocci-care information and other treatments.

[cindy]

I posted this on another thread but decided to re-post a new thread...just a few thoughts on Cocci-care.

Interesting enough Cocci-care is written as a treatment with a statment that says "If bird does not respond or if condition worsens, consult a veterinarian" right on the bottle.

It is on several websites, they are repeating the directions on the bottle. Basicaly if one or more of the birds have it but is a carrier, showing no sign but "could be shedding it" and you are trying to rid them so they do not pass it on or later succumb to it use Cocci-care. The bird that is a carrier but not showing signs basically has it so in a way it (Cocci-care) can be regarded as a both a treatment and preventitive.

I also think it is wise to consult a vet to get help for cases that could possibly mimic the things like coccidia and giardia. Additional stronger meds may be needed to fight off certain diseases and parasites such as the ones Monique uses. If it is going through a flock a vet can provide treatments that will wipe it out faster.

Coccicare contains Amprolium which is a coccidiostat (an antiprotozoal agent that acts upon the Coccidia parasites) often used in poultry and Ethopobate which is a supplementary drug that improves the coccidiostatic effect of amprolium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidiostat (mentions Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole also along with others)

I think some of the things that make it difficult in caring for a sick bird are some symptoms when presented can look a lot like one thing really but be another...helping these little birds is difficult and confusing at times. All we can do is treat with preventatives, feed a good diet, give them a clean safe environment and when ill do what we can for them.

*note...medications such as these may not be as effective as medications prescribed by an avian vet. It may take a combination of medications including an antibiotic to get a sick bird over an illness. Consult a vet if in doubt.

[nixity]

Coccidiostat = suppressant, not a treatment

Cocci-care is more for use in environments where infection (or rather, reinfection) is not only unavoidable but it is almost certain.. most often, pigeon coops or chicken runs.

It would be unrealistic to "treat" so the most common course of action is a suppressant.

[cindy]

Tiffany, this is the confusing part...the bottle states what it does contain Amprolium which is a coccidiostat (an antiprotozoal agent that acts upon the Coccidia parasites) often used in poultry (definition from Wikpedia) so it is not safe to assume that Cocci-care is a treatment or is it tuely a preventitive or is it just supressing the parasite until the bird is weakened....this is were it gets sticky....if a bird has it and it is sitting dormant, no signs then using Cocci-care as a preventive so it is not spread will or will not Cocci-care work in ridding it from the host?

this from Webster coccidiostat...COCCIDIOSTAT
a chemical agent added to animal feed (as for poultry) that serves to retard the life cycle or reduce the population of pathogenic coccidia to the point that disease is minimized and the host develops immunity.

We are basically giving this to the birds that are possible host to prevent/retard/end the life cylce of the parasite...so if the bird actually has it aren't we in a way treating the host bird...is this one hundred percent effective in a silent carrier? Will the silent carrier if treated with only Cocci-care be truely rid of the parasite. A silent carrier that only sheds the parasite can appear perfectly healthy yet can spread the parasite to others.

[nixity]

Cocci-care is not a "treatment" for coccidia.
It is considered (by Morning Bird, the manufacturer) a preventive because like you said, it retards the life cycle but it doesn't destroy the organism.

So, it acts as a suppressant furthering the spread, but it basically puts the disease into remission, if you will.
It's indicated for situations where reinfection is extremely likely, to where the best course of action is to put the disease into stasis rather than to attempt a "treatment" approach.

Cocci-care (or any coccidiostat) is meant to be used on a repetitive basis, to keep reinfection or infection from spreading. I think most people use it during the warm summer months in outdoor aviaries and pigeon/chicken houses probably once a month. I'm guessing in Wikipedia they probably talked about medicated chicken scratch which I believe contains coccidiostats?

Alternatively, for indoor birds where you are treating in a quarantine situation or because you feel like infection is possible and you want to treat the disease, you need an anti-protozoal that is effective against Coccidia.
The only one that I even remotely believe in is Baycox. I use Baycox because Vonda, who religiously performs fecals on her birds, has used this and found that the oocysts never returned after treatment. (This was for INDOOR birds where sterilization during treatment was a possibility)

[lovemyfinch]

I think that this is the part that Tiffany was referring to:

the host develops immunity.

Which would mean that the host bird or birds will become immune. However, if we were to introduce this bird to another flock, the other birds unless treated would be at risk. The scary part is, that this would mean that the cycle would only continue. Being that the bird would still be a carrier and could pass it on to any bird that it would be introduced to. Which in my mind would mean that if you have a bird that is a carrier, the only correct thing that you could do is keep it as a pet, as selling any birds that had been in contact could possibly be carriers.

Scary to think that this seems it could put a breeder completely halted.

[nixity]

No... it doesn't have anything to do with immunity.
The thing you have to understand with Coccidia is that most often it is a stress induced disease. Like shingles in people, you can be carrying it in your system for years and never know it, and then have a stressful event in your life and break out like crazy.

Any bird can be carrying the organism and shedding it in an aviary in their droppings and you'd never know it, because they never appear ill.

My understanding (without looking it up right now) is that the role a coccidiostat plays is that it prevents the life cycle from completing in any "carrier" birds, so that birds who may or may not have the organism do not shed the oocysts which would infect other flock members.

Likewise, that if the environment is a stable environment which would allow for infection to occur, birds that are on the coccidiostat are less susceptible (but not immune) from infection.

Like I said, it's (coccidiostats) really designed for environments where infection is sort of an endemic thing.. something that you're just attempting to "control" versus treat.

This is why Baycox is a treatment that is ALWAYS a part of my quarantine procedure. Because it's one of those things that generally speaking most birds brought in will have.
I don't have this PUBLISHED on my site anywhere because of all the hooplah surrounding quarantine treatments and medicating birds, etc etc., but this is what I developed/documented:

http://www.gouldiansgalore.net/quarantine.html

[cindy]

Tiffany, so it acts like a BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis israelenis)....my husband works with products that hault or prevent the mosquito larve from maturing. Same idea behind a GRI (Growth Regulator. Inhibitors) in some flea preventive product/medication and environmental sprays.

Baycox...is that readily available or is this something that is prescribed? Can it be used with adults, young, chicks still in the nest (since the parents fed it to the young)?

[nixity]

Yep - exactly

It's not prescribed but a lot of places also don't "advertise" it on their sites... I can't say for sure why

I got mine by ordering from Siegel's over the phone.. I think it was about $40?
It stinks to hiiggghhhh heaven.. stinks up your whole house, it smells like rotten lettuce

[cindy]

Rotten lettuce...yuk. Might be good to use when the weather permits opening a window!!!!

Thanks for your help...right now I have birds that I adopted in quarantine, they have been dewormed, given a full week of Roivet S and I am about to give Cocci-care....is this ok to use for now (until I can purchase Baycox...and open the windows? Husband may not like it to much, the dogs though might love the smell!!!

I want to treat everyone at the same time, new and original birds. I really want to make sure the adopted birds are not carrying anything, especially the societies. Can cocci-care be given to parent birds with young in the nest and weaning. Am I leaving anything else out?

[lovemyfinch]

I am going to put the question out there for anyone who might be able to be of assistance.
I would love to add Baycox to my quarantine regiment, if anyone knows where I could by it online it would be greatly appreciated.

[cindy]

Janine...go up just a bit to one of Tiffany's responses, her site lists a place, you have to read through the article.

Got it...to quote Tiffany..."Siegel's over the phone"....she said it is about $40 and smells up the house!!!

[cindy]

So basically unless the carrier presents symptoms and is treated with a GRI, which haults the growth of the parasite it is capable of passing the parasite on. Treated the parasite is stunted, growth cycle is haulted and the bird can no longer pass on the parasite.

[lou]

and you can't really over dose baycox
lou

[CandoAviary]

Glad you explained it so well, as usual Tiffany Hopefully this will help many people that try to "cure" cocci with coccicare... though in hot, muggy Florida... coccicare can be very bennificial.

[cindy]

Janine I found this site for Baycox in Canada...they might be able to direct you to someone near you that sells it.

http://www.drugs.com/vet/baycox-toltraz ... n-can.html

Your vet may also be able to get it for you.