Safe treatment for all birds

[birdclaws]

I'm a bit new to finch hoarding. All of my birds are active and appear healthy. However, I've been going through old posts here and reading about different quarantine procedures and have a few questions. I've become paranoid about possible illnesses that may not be obvious. Mainly cocci. What would you recommend for treating all of my birds, not just new ones that come in and being put under quarantine? I have the 4 in 1 powder from ladygouldianfinch which states it treats canker, e coli, paratyphoid and cocci. I planned on treating all the birds with this for the recommended 7 days, and plan on introducing probiotics after. Does this seem like it would be effective? Is there a better way to treat my birds? I apologize for the noob questions.

[Dayna]

I would think your 4-1 would be ok. Ronex is a good general antibiotic to use. I'd also use worm away and some form of ASM treatment, either SCATT or S76. I have read and heard good things about adding apple cider vinegar to the water. 1 drop per ounce. Also I have heard good things about adding garlic as a general immune fighter. I have never used garlic but its something you could try.

[birdclaws]

Thanks, I've been sing Apple Cider Vinegar for a while now, haven't tried garlic.. I will treat the birds again for ASM. I do not have Ronex, so I guess that will be next on my list. And it's safe to use these things regularly, or do you a general treatment for this once a year? or once every couple months?

Does anyone have any more information on enteritis? Causes and treatment?
It seems to come up when being discussed with e-coli but I can't find anything on the forum or about finches either.

[cindy]

Ronex is not an antibiotic it is a parasite prevenative. Amoxitex is an antibiotic. For products and their recommended uses please refer to Morning Bird Products.

The main things you want to use in quarantine are
Ronex or Ronivet 12%.
Cocci-care
Worm away

If 4 in 1 treats for a wide range then using separate products may not be necessary. If in duobt call lagygouldian.com to be sure.

[Dayna]

Ronex is not an antibiotic it is a parasite prevenative. Amoxitex is an antibiotic. For products and their recommended uses please refer to Morning Bird Products.

The main things you want to use in quarantine are
Ronex or Ronivet 12%.
Cocci-care
Worm away

If 4 in 1 treats for a wide range then using separate products may not be necessary. If in duobt call lagygouldian.com to be sure.

Oops thanks for clearing that up Cindy. Didn't realize I wrote anibiotic I meant to say preventative.

[managermania]

I don't know a lot about medications, but what are you treating your birds for again?

[cindy]

When new birds come home and are in quarantine I treat with
* Ronex or Ronivet S %12 for 7 days
* then probiotcs for 3 to 4
* then Wormaway for 1
* then probiotics for 3
* then a week after the day I first gave the dewormer I deworm using Wormaway again.
* then probiotics for 3 days

Ronex or Ronivet 12% is what is recommended for finches due to their high metabolism...if you can only get 6% then you will need to double the powder amount to the 1 times the water.

I looked up the ingrediants in the 4 and 1 powder which is a treatment not preventative and this is what the label read

Furaltandone 20%
Ronidazole 7%
Inactive ingredients to 100g

It only contains 7% Ronidazole, which is not strong enough for finches...the Furaltandone is an antibiotic for things like Salmonella, E. coli. I would not use this as a preventative unless the birds have an issue.

I recommend the Ronex 12% or Ronivet 12% as a preventative during quarantine along with the Wormaway, Cocci-care.

[debbie276]

I recommend the Ronex 12% or Ronivet 12% as a preventative

I was told that Ronex is a treatment and not a preventative. Are you saying that if I give Ronex to my birds it prevents them from getting Trichomoniasis, Cochlosoma or Giardia?

[cindy]

Correction...it is a treatment for the above but a preventative for parasites and a treatment as well. To be honest I have always used Ronex to cover the parasite end of it not the other three.

My main concer if I was purchasing or going to use 4 and 1 would be the strength of the Ronidazole at 7% it is not strong enough to be effective for finches so it would have to be doubled but since it is combined with the Furaltandone 20% doubling the powder dose may not be advisable. Since Furaltandone is an antibiotic....I would forgo the 4 and 1 as a treatment/preventative in quarantine and save it for when the bird is ill. In quarantine I would use Ronex12% since it only contains Ronidazole and is effective against protozoa such as Trichomonas, Hexamita, Canker, Giardia, and Cochlosoma without the antibiotic. (why treat with an antibiotic if the bird is not showing signs of illness)

The Ronex and Ronivet 12% is the correct strength to handle. The 4 and 1 I would consider a treatment since it does contain an antibiotic and you use an antibiotic primarily to cure something. I would definately if considering using the 4 and 1 consult ladygouldian in regards to the Ronidazole strength, that would be my major concern. It is just over half the stregth required for finches.

[Sally]

Don't get hung up on trying to prevent diseases with your birds--you cannot. Birds can be carriers of something and not even show it. Overuse of antibiotics and medications is exactly what can cause problems in your aviary, as the birds develop a resistance to those meds. Then, when you need them, they are ineffective. If you keep finches, you will lose one from time to time, often having no idea of what went wrong. I have linked to Laraine's new website, in which she tells her new quarantine procedures. Relax and enjoy your birds.

http://www.ladygouldian.com/node/239

[cindy]

To a point I do agree and quarantine proceedures are changing but if you are in doubt to the history of your birds or rescued them from a bad situation I would tend to lean towards preventatives and a long quarantine before introducing them into your flock.

[birdclaws]

In a roundabout way, I guess that is where I was trying to get at. The birds do not show any signs of illness, but I was trying to see if it were safe to treat them in hopes it would fight any disease that may not have physical signs. I've never done all of the thorough quarantining techniques on here, so after reading old posts I became a bit paranoid that all of my birds could be sick. But I will put away the meds for now, because everyone appears healthy and happy.

And sorry to stir up another "preventative/treament/antibiotic" confusion.

[cindy]

No need to be sorry...always best to put it out there and ask some of the new folks on here may not have seen the old posts!

I agree if you have gone through all the right measure in quarantine and the birds are doing great, no need to medicate!

I to sometimes can't believe how good mine are doing and sometimes fear the "what ifs"....it just shows you care and are thinking of the best for for them. Glad to hear yours are all doing well!

[lovemyfinch]

Don't get hung up on trying to prevent diseases with your birds--you cannot. Birds can be carriers of something and not even show it. Overuse of antibiotics and medications is exactly what can cause problems in your aviary, as the birds develop a resistance to those meds. Then, when you need them, they are ineffective. If you keep finches, you will lose one from time to time, often having no idea of what went wrong. I have linked to Laraine's new website, in which she tells her new quarantine procedures. Relax and enjoy your birds.

http://www.ladygouldian.com/node/239

I am going to have to agree with Sally on this one. I have always used the same philosophy with my birds as with my family....less is more.

[debbie276]

Sally wrote:
Don't get hung up on trying to prevent diseases with your birds--you cannot. Birds can be carriers of something and not even show it. Overuse of antibiotics and medications is exactly what can cause problems in your aviary, as the birds develop a resistance to those meds. Then, when you need them, they are ineffective. If you keep finches, you will lose one from time to time, often having no idea of what went wrong. I have linked to Laraine's new website, in which she tells her new quarantine procedures. Relax and enjoy your birds.

http://www.ladygouldian.com/node/239


I am going to have to agree with Sally on this one. I have always used the same philosophy with my birds as with my family....less is more.

_________________
Janine

I agree with you both!