FINCHforum

Oh my god - i am really scared at this moment Today when i came home i went to the society finches cage. When i got closer - i saw that my hen started "nodding" her head back and forth, as if she was trying to bring something up. What came up was a little slimy blob of half-digested seeds i thought she was only regurgitating food to feed one of the males - but then she did this again, started doing the back and forth head motions and regurgitating. This time she shook her head very fast though, so the "stuff" she regurgitated flew around in the cage and onto her.

This sounds like vomiting, doesn't it ?

Directly after she had vomited, she went to the seed dish and started eating as if nothing had happened :S She is also kind of fat compared to my 3 society males, but i dont know if it has anything to do with this.

The first thing that came to my mind was crop infection or parasite :/ What do you think it could be ?

This has frightened me so much that i am pretty sure i'll be taking her to the vet tomorrow or on monday Should i do anything until its time to go ?

Overall, the society hen seems active as usual, so its really hard to tell if she is sick or if the vomiting is something serious i have only seen it happen this one time today.

Please help a worried illness newbie

please refer to this topic thread....Gary has the same issue with his finch.

Your finch may have a parasite, Deborha wrote this in regards to an article I had posted on the subject a while back
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18307

"I skimmed the avian medical reference that Cindy has posted previously and all I could find was a paragraph on the following:
Trichomonas
Trichomonas spp. infections are occasionally seen in finches, particularly those housed near infected budgerigars. Clinical symptoms include gagging, neck stretching, regurgitation, respiratory distress, nasal discharge, green diarrhea and emaciation. Di- agnosis is made by identifying the flagellate on a wet smear prepared from a crop wash. At necropsy, caseous material may be seen lining the crop and esophagus, and flagellates may be identified from this material provided that it is fresh."

It is very difficult at times to differentiate regurgitation and vomiting. Both involve bringing up food and expelling it from the beak.

Regurgitation to a mate, person or toy is a normal part of breeding behavior. A bird that is regurgitating or vomiting will make a head-bobbing and neck-stretching type of movement. Food will be brought up and deposited on the bird's toys or mate. Such controlled regurgitation usually does not result in staining of the feathers or the beak.

Bacterial, viral and fungal gastrointestinal causes, obstructions, toxins and liver or kidney problems may also cause regurgitation or vomiting.

Vomiting, on the other hand, is usually a rapid flick of the head, which is often not noticed by pet bird owners. Tell-tale signs of vomiting in birds is the flicking of small pieces of ingesta around the cage and on top of the birds head. Food may become caked on the bird's head giving it a spiky, matted appearance. Vomiting often occurs along with regurgitation and is a serious clinical sign."

Do have Ronex12%, if so double the powder and and dose for 3 to 4 days the give for the remainder for a total of 7 days treatment

Ronex 12% by Morning Bird Products....

""RONEX Extra Strength is a treatment for cankers, giardia and other protozoal infections.

SYMPTOMS OF PROTOZOAL DISEASES:

canker or large yellowish masses in the throat or crop
weight loss
regurgitation
dried saliva around beak

DIRECTIONS FOR USE:
Ronex Extra Strength successfully treats motile protozoa such as Trichomonas, Giardia, Hexamita, and Cochlosoma. Add ½ teaspoon (2.5ml) of RONEX Extra Strength to 2 quarts of clean drinking water and administer for 7 days. Use as bird’s only source of drinking water. For particularly difficult infections, increase dose to 5 times normal for 3 days then continue with normal dose for 4 days. Preventative treatments are recommended to control further protozoal infections. If bird does not improve or condition worsens, consult a veterinarian. Keep container closed before and after use. Store in a cool, dry place. One level teaspoon equals 5 ml."

......................................................................................
Question, is she constantly eating, do you see her more than normal? Are her dropping alright?

Thank you for the reply Cindy!
I had already read the thread but i missed the information about the treatment since i was so stressed out I do not believe its trichomonas though, since the vomiting is the only symtom i've seen.

Can it be something wrong with her crop, like an infection/inflammation ?

I think she eats a little bit more than the males i have (i have her and 3 male societies) and she is also rather puffy/fat compared to them. The first thing i saw her do after the vomiting was going straight to the seed dish to eat

When i got her - like 2 months ago, i gave her a dose of my quarantine meds - one round of S76, and one round of Ronivet-S. I never dewormed though, because i didn't have any dewormer in hand. Could it be some kind of parasite worm ?

The ronivet what percentage was it was it 6% or 12%?

Usually if they are constantly eating it can be a sign of parasites since the parasite can take the nurishment from the bird so the bird feels continually hungry.

It could also be a Avian gastric yeast infection,
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/yeast.html
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_agy.php

Have you picked the bird up and checked the breast bone? If you can feel the breast bone protruding she is loosing weight. Vomiting and weight loss is also associated with AGY.

First check her breastbone and then her droppings, look for undigested seeds. Also let us know the % of the ronivet, it you use a single strength of 6% that is not strong enough for finches.

This is on worms...can you get Wormaway
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_worms.php

I have the 12% ronivet! Unfortunately i am not very good at handling finches, or at least catching them and such I dont trust my own knowledge in this case - so what i will do is to observe the society hen closely, and if i see her vomit more tomorrow i'll take her to the vet! I'll write an update about how it went if it comes to that

Thank you very much for your help Cindy!

Good luck with her, try to keep her warm, the heat may help. If she brings food up observe and see if she is flicking about and wiping her face or she is doing it as if she is trying to feed a mate, as describe above.

RMK
Do you have a hospital cage?
If you do not, you should get a small cage to use as a hospital cage.
To the degree that you can treat your birds yourself, you will save a lot of money. Vet treatment can be VERY expensive.

Although if she has it, the other birds might also have it to a lesser degree. I am treating every bird that my sick zebra was with. She could have spread the "bug" to them.

Can you tell us what medications you have on hand...I would leave her with the others, most liely as Gary said if she has anything the others may have it or are carriers. You can attach a heat lamp onto their cage, if they feel they need the warmth they will go to it.

I suggest if you can catch her, you need to see if she is going light, the chest should normally feel round, meaty, if she is going light the breast bone will feel sharp, it is a very distinct feel, like an "V" You won't hurt, blow the feathers back, you will be able to see and feel it if she is not well. If she vomits do not lay her on her back, keep her head upright as you check.

I dont trust my own knowledge in this case - so what i will do is to observe the society hen closely, and if i see her vomit more tomorrow i'll take her to the vet! I'll write an update about how it went if it comes to that

If you have a vet available that would be your best avenue. It is very hard, if not impossible to diagnose a illness over the internet, especially when the symptoms can be caused by many different things.
Best of luck and please do let us know how you do.

Thank you all for your help, i really appreciate it

I have observed my society hen closely today - and i haven't seen any vomiting yet! Overall she seems happy and active as usual, she also eats a lot which i dont know if its good or bad!

Cindy: I have Ronivet-S 12% and S76 only
The birds also have 2 UV-birdlamps next to their cage, but they dont have any heatlamp.

Right know i am thinking about what is best for her - taking her out and putting her in a hospital cage, or leaving her with the others ?


Could this necessarily be something serious like a parasite, or could it simply be that she got something stuck in her throat and therefore vomited ? :O

Maybe i should put her in a hospital cage after all... so i can observe her better.. what do you think ?

If there has been no further signs of her vomiting or illness I would leave her with the others. If she does have something I would suspect the others may as well.

Personally, I would leave her with the others and observe her. If she starts again make sure the actions during her vomiting is either of the two in the article that was quoted above. You will have to see if she is trying to feed another cage mate or actually vomiting.

I would catch her up and feel her breast bone and belly. I would also consider using Wormaway on her, worms can also cause the bird to over eat. Also examine the vomit to see if it is just seed or if there may be worm segments in it, also check her droppings. If you can put white paper towels or white paper in the tray drawer, it will make it easier to check the droppings and vomit.

I would also put a heat lamp on the cage so if she needs it she can go to it.

RMK
A heat lamp in its simplest form is a reflector lamp with an incandescent light bulb. The bulb generates enough heat to keep the bird warm.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Lig ... ogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Ele ... ogId=10053

Next step up is to use a reflector bulb.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Lig ... ogId=10053
The built in reflector reflects more light and heat towards the bird.

Gary, have you ever used the ceramic bullbs? Do they give off a better heat than bulbs?

Ahh - so its just a regular lightbulb, ac12 ?
I have this kind of lamp

I have two of them and they are both fairly close to the cage. Do you think i need a regular lightbulb close to the cage too ?


Cindy:
I saw her doing the vomiting-thing again, but this time she didn't shake her head so it flew around her. She just shook her head one or two times to the side and regurgitated some food, that the male ate from her beak. When she "vomited" now, she was also next to the male - so it is very very hard to determine if its vomiting im seeing or just regurgitating to feed She has regurgitated food for the male several times since i first got her - so its hard to tell if its normal or illness!

I have checked how her poop looks, and it seems normal! The white part of the poop is white as it should be, and the dark part is olive green/dark brown. What i've noticed though, is that her poops are much larger than the males poops is this because she is just bigger than them, or something else ?

I would continue to watch her, finish the S76 and then see how she is. It sounds a little like she is courting the one male. Keep us posted.