FINCHforum

New shaft tail finch, might be something wrong with it? It is wiping its beak on the branches and opening its mouth every so often and scratching itself?

P.S It is in with a star finch

Sounds like air sac mites. Could have been exacerbated by the stress of a move.

Do you hear any clicking sound when it is breathing with the beak open? Is there any spots/flecking on the face feathers? If it's ASM (air sac mites), you need to treat with Ivermectin, S76 or Scatt. If there is respiratory infection, you need an antibiotic. What do the droppings look like? Is it eating well? Active or not?

Yes, sounds like ASM, go to www.ladygouldian.com or www.ladygouldianfinch.com order, S76, Scatt or ivermectin. And ASAP, ASM can be deadly.

Just wondering..did you get this shaft tail from Finch Farm as well? Seems strange to have another new bird with health issues

Er well um yes this is from the farm too. I'm also noticing it is a little fatter than most shaft tails, but it seems pretty active. I also noticed it is digging its beak into its wing.

And I don't see any spots

The symptoms you are describing are not enough for anyone here to diagnose your bird with anything pathological, least of all ASM.
Far from it.

Beak swiping is completely normal for many finch species and is often a part of courtship ritual and does not necessarily indicate that anything is wrong at all.

What do you mean by opening it's mouth so often?
What is the temperature where the bird is being kept? How active is the bird? Is the bird overweight?
Open mouth breathing can also be simple PANTING because the bird is hot, especially if it is new to a home and flying around frantically due to stress.
Also, you would need to describe "scratching itself" more - what do you mean? Is it normal preening behavior? Birds preen and scratch all the time, it doesn't mean they have mites.

Please - everyone - Please consider gathering more information before immediately jumping to conclusions especially those such as ASM. This really is not as prevalent as everyone seems to think and by forcing unnecessary treatments on the birds you could be causing a lot more harm than good.

The following article is written by an Avian vet who belongs to the Gouldian Keeper forum on Yahoo! His name is Bob Bills.
http://www.geocities.com/bjbills1/ASM.html

Thank you Tiffany. I had been following this thread and feeling bad about what finchforum is about. So glad you moderated.
For someone new to birds and happened on this site via google, this type of talk pointing to asm can really mislead.

I don't think everyone was jumping to conclusions, but trying to ask questions and help rule-out the symptoms. We never did receive an answer on the droppings, eating, and if there is any clicking with the open mouth breathing. Without more information, we're all taking guesses. A video would help, so we can see what you are referring to as beak wiping and open mouth breathing.

finchmix22 wrote:I don't think everyone was jumping to conclusions, but trying to ask questions and help rule-out the symptoms. We never did receive an answer on the droppings, eating, and if there is any clicking with the open mouth breathing. Without more information, we're all taking guesses. A video would help, so we can see what you are referring to as beak wiping and open mouth breathing.

I realize the few questions asked were never answered but many of the replies were automatically diagnosing or concluding the bird was infected with ASM.

I apologize, I did jump to ASM right away, as well.

Tiffany, thank you for that informative post. I don't post on health issues very often, because it is almost impossible to diagnose over the web. In fact, the few times I have taken a finch to an avian vet, the only way he was able to diagnose was through tests (and one of them came back wrong once!). Most avian vets deal primarily with the larger birds. My vet commented that first of all, his equipment was sized to swab larger birds, it was extremely difficult for him to get a crop swab, even blood samples are taken differently for finches than the larger birds. So if the vets are challenged when it comes to finches, we all have to be careful with diagnosing without seeing a bird in person.

Without a proper diagnosis, giving the wrong medication can do far more harm than good. I think we've all gone the route of acquiring a medicine box full of different medications just in case. This is good, because if you do need something, you can't run down to your closest pet shop to get it, you have to order online. However, it is easy to start trying out all these potions when we have a sick bird, trying to save it.

ASM can be very serious, and no one wants to have it in their birds. But as Tiffany said, it is not nearly as prevalent as people think. My birds routinely wipe their beaks on the perch, especially after eating or drinking, and one reason perches get dirty so quickly. They also preen regularly, and scratching is a part of that ritual. As far as open-mouth breathing, again as Tiffany said, there can be many reasons for that, many of them completely normal.

I believe SiriusKepler recently lost a newly-purchased bird, so naturally, he is nervous about the health of any new bird. Finches hide illness so well that often, by the time we see that they are ill, they are in the last stages anyway. It is also natural to want to post on here when we suspect a problem with one of our birds, and often, someone is able to help with some good advice.

IMO, the best thing to do with any bird that appears ill is to put it in a hospital cage (or any cage by itself) with a heat lamp and then watch it. Newly-purchased birds are under a lot of stress, so they need extra pampering. Quarantine is not only to protect your current population from anything the new birds might carry, but also to give your new birds a chance to recover from whatever stress they have gone through, whether it was shipping, being at a mart, etc.

So again, the best thing when someone posts about a health problem is to ask lots of questions, get as much information as possible, and avoid prescribing medications unless you are really sure of what is ailing that bird.

I also replied too quickly and thoughtlessly. I realized shortly after I posted that I should have qualified my answer, but it was very late and I did not. Actually I should not have replied at all to the question, but let someone with first-hand experience of potential respiratory problems answer.

HOWEVER, to say that you feel bad about what FF is about because of this thread seems a bit harsh, IMO.

A while back I started a thread about beak-wiping in my GS - I thought it might be territorial behavior. Some very experienced FF members suggested it could be ASM and some recommended that I treat for it. I looked up references on ASM, sought out more advice on diagnosis (eg catch bird, hold beak to ear, listen for breathing that sounds like squishy footsteps), and learned about treatment options. In the end I decided my birds were healthy and did not treat for ASM. (They continue to do fine.) I learned from that thread, and it was on my mind when I first replied to this one.

I image that a forum like this should aim for a responsible middle ground between amateur brainstorming and professional avian DVM diagnoses. Also people who post questions here rather than take a bird to a vet should realize that what they get is not equivalent to a vet's orders. I did stray here and it is right to point out that I should have taken more care in my posting. But IMO generally negative comments are not helpful to discourse. If you disagree with what someone says in their post just say so - preferably at the time you are following the thread. IMO. IMHO.

Enough FF for me for a while