FINCHforum

CandoAviary wrote:Kenny, I bring up breeders who breed many birds because as we all know the more crowded the flights are the more likely for sanitary hazards and overcrowding stress can bring but these breeders can turn out unbelievable healthy birds because of some common sense approaches. Large numbers of healthy birds always impress me a bit more than a few healthy birds

Dean, I hadn't made that connection with vinegar as a weight loss stimulant... think I need to go drink a bottle

Deborah... isn't it great to have a place to learn so many ways of doing the same thing. Though there are many ways of doing the same thing always put health of your birds first

Cindy, I have bought many of those bird products in the past but after seeing what most are made from I decided to go back to old ways and save some money I also don't mind sharing this with my customers so that they can save money also... if they want to use those bird products I refer them to either Tiffany or Lorraine as I don't sell them in my store. Most just follow my advice and go to walmart and pick up generic antiseptic mouthwash. Maybe I like a bargain.... no I love a bargain I am learning about the bargain limestone now.... man the money I have spent on mineral dust But that's another topic

Thank you, everyone, for this interesting feedback! Although the topic drifted away somewhat from the case of my female canary with loose stools, it is always great to exchange opinions and learn from each other, and I thank all the contributors. Myself, I am a novice, but I exercise a lot of common sense and do a LOT of research before trying something new or even buying a new bird (the same goes for my gardening hobby).

As to what works best, well, I guess it is often a matter of personal preference along with trial and error. At the end of the day, I guess we can learn some great things from those who are beginners just as much as from those who have been in the practice for years. If anyone would like to continue the debate, the best thing to do is to start a new topic so that readers who have not guessed from the title what is being discussed can also follow the conversation.

All the best,
Roula

CandoAviary wrote:Kenny, I bring up breeders who breed many birds because as we all know the more crowded the flights are the more likely for sanitary hazards and overcrowding stress can bring but these breeders can turn out unbelievable healthy birds because of some common sense approaches. Large numbers of healthy birds always impress me a bit more than a few healthy birds

Dean, I hadn't made that connection with vinegar as a weight loss stimulant... think I need to go drink a bottle

Deborah... isn't it great to have a place to learn so many ways of doing the same thing. Though there are many ways of doing the same thing always put health of your birds first

Cindy, I have bought many of those bird products in the past but after seeing what most are made from I decided to go back to old ways and save some money I also don't mind sharing this with my customers so that they can save money also... if they want to use those bird products I refer them to either Tiffany or Lorraine as I don't sell them in my store. Most just follow my advice and go to walmart and pick up generic antiseptic mouthwash. Maybe I like a bargain.... no I love a bargain I am learning about the bargain limestone now.... man the money I have spent on mineral dust But that's another topic

Hi Candace

Unfortunately on the question of Apple Cider Vinegar there is absolutely no evidence it reduces weight in either people or birds. I have recently been reading research on this matter and the most recent trials done actually had test mice who were on ACV increase their weight by 10%, not decrease it. I do not believe that ACV is in any way detrimental to birds and in my case have found it to be of enormous benefit in the finches I keep. I have been to a number of some of the best bird facilities in the world and it is used in many of them. whatever products I use for cleaning are heavily diluted so I guess you could argue that they have may or may not have any effect. Anyway I would have to say that ACV is a staple in my aviaries and I could not do without it. Heavily diluted listrine is just one materia lI use which I have found is just as effective, but not more effective, than any other product. Your perfectly right, a common sense approach to keeping is the key to success and the willingness to pass your experience on to others , as you do, only addsto that.

The benefits of apple cider vinegar

Apple cider vinegar for weight loss
1) We all know that eating apple before consume a meal will help lose weight, because apple high in pectin which will make you feel fuller and more satisfied so you do not over eat in your primary meal.
2) Apple cider vinegar contain the same amount of pectin as apple which is about (1.5) grams , so just small amount will suppress your appetite. That means you will eat less calories during your meal .

Nice info............ hah ? Now let us play with the vinegar field and ignore the Listerine because, the co. that is making it refused to pay us for advertising it sorry but i like to joke sometimes

I am not saying that vinegar has no benefits i actually know that it has many great sides with a few side effects can happened, it depend on how we use it regardless on us or on our birds.
for example, drinking one spoon of vinegar daily can strip the throat, you are right ( how the hell wants to drink vinegar that way) well a lot of over weight people are desperate to weight lose .
3) Apple cider will increase the availability of Hormones, protein and the testosterone in our body and birds body which is good .
That is why a male canary sing more often when he provided with apple at that time, plus the increase of his testosterone will make the brain area that is responsible for song learning wider, but remember too much apple will decrease his appetite .

4) providing a bird with vinegar or Apple daily :

a- Will cause a bird to feel full with no appetite to his main food.
b- Will cause a bird to loss his normal body fat that he need to keep.
c- Will lead a bird to feather plucking based on losing vitamins and
Minerals when not eating much of his main food, bird will pluck his
own new grown feather quill and /or other bird feather quill to
to eat the feather quill blood to recover from the missing vitamins
and minerals from his body .
(There is other reasons causes the feather plucking too-I know)
d- Will help a bird with over weight to loss his fat until it get back to
normal body fat .

That is my knowledge and experience regarding :
* Does vinegar and Apple will help lose weight ?
( Yes)
* Does vinegar and Apple when its provided daily to a bird will risk
his health ?
( Yes ) .
Thanks for reading my comments and you are welcome my friend regardless if you agree or disagree .

Dean K... ...




------------------------------------------------------------------

The canary man wrote: The benefits of apple cider vinegar

Apple cider vinegar for weight loss
1) We all know that eating apple before consume a meal will help lose weight, because apple high in pectin which will make you feel fuller and more satisfied so you do not over eat in your primary meal.
2) Apple cider vinegar contain the same amount of pectin as apple which is about (1.5) grams , so just small amount will suppress your appetite. That means you will eat less calories during your meal .

Nice info............ hah ? Now let us play with the vinegar field and ignore the Listerine because, the co. that is making it refused to pay us for advertising it sorry but i like to joke sometimes

I am not saying that vinegar has no benefits i actually know that it has many great sides with a few side effects can happened, it depend on how we use it regardless on us or on our birds.
for example, drinking one spoon of vinegar daily can strip the throat, you are right ( how the hell wants to drink vinegar that way) well a lot of over weight people are desperate to weight lose .
3) Apple cider will increase the availability of Hormones, protein and the testosterone in our body and birds body which is good .
That is why a male canary sing more often when he provided with apple at that time, plus the increase of his testosterone will make the brain area that is responsible for song learning wider, but remember too much apple will decrease his appetite .

4) providing a bird with vinegar or Apple daily :

a- Will cause a bird to feel full with no appetite to his main food.
b- Will cause a bird to loss his normal body fat that he need to keep.
c- Will lead a bird to feather plucking based on losing vitamins and
Minerals when not eating much of his main food, bird will pluck his
own new grown feather quill and /or other bird feather quill to
to eat the feather quill blood to recover from the missing vitamins
and minerals from his body .
(There is other reasons causes the feather plucking too-I know)
d- Will help a bird with over weight to loss his fat until it get back to
normal body fat .

That is my knowledge and experience regarding :
* Does vinegar and Apple will help lose weight ?
( Yes)
* Does vinegar and Apple when its provided daily to a bird will risk
his health ?
( Yes ) .
Thanks for reading my comments and you are welcome my friend regardless if you agree or disagree .

Dean K... ...

I found all this interesting but there is absolutely no medical evidence to support the premise that ACV reduces weight. Anyway this forum is about birds not about weight reduction but it has all been interesting though

Thanks Kenny, that's what I try to do is share information. I realized there are many ways of keeping birds... I personnally have used many, got rid of some, added some, went back to some..... I am always willing to learn more if it has to do with making birds happier and healthier in captivity.

As far as vinegar... I wasn't really going to drink the bottle I use venegar or applesauce all the time when I hand feed finches to keep the PH unfavorable to yeast... but I refrain from giving it on a daily bases. I think my birds have a pretty good balanced PH and usually don't have a problem with yeast..unless I am handfeeding and then that is never as good as what the chick's parents eat and feed, along with their antibodies.
However there are some studies that prove vinegar deters appetite, hence resulting in the birds weight lose from not consuming thier proper diets.
Below are just a few of the many scientific studies around the globe on vinegar... found to supress appetite, help blood sugar levels that may bennifit diabetes..and so much more. here are just a few...
http://www.livestrong.com/article/39661 ... ar-weight/

Apple cider vinegar helps you feel full longer because it reduces your body's glycemic response to foods.
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com/apple- ... -loss.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/28140 ... ight-loss/

http://www.knowabouthealth.com/miraculo ... egar/2004/

http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar?page=2

I would like to point out that nobody is being rude hear, just expressing opinions based on experience and studies. I do agree that this post should be split with a new topic titled Natural remedies and Health ... under health or resources? so that others can read this great information. Liz, Janine maybe could do this???
I think we all bennifit and learn when we have such knowledagble people...like Kenny, Dean, and others that I just don't see any more here, expressing their many years of trials, errors, and obsrvation.... I know I have learned much from both of them and hope that the forum members can continue to attract and keep such knowledgible info comming. There is plenty of space for chatting and appeasing already on this forum... let's get some real experts involved. There is room for all.

Well I am certainly no "expert", but... I have tried just about evertying the "experts" have suggested. In my opinon we have to learn what is best for us and what works for each of us with our own individual birds.
In my opinon the Listerine is too harsh. Again.... my opinion.

I personally add citric acid to each gallon of water after it is boiled. I boil all water that my birds drink. It has taken me a long time and I know many of you know how I almsot gave up on gouldians a while back. We all have to learn.....our own way.

And as far as being rude.... sometimes the way opinons are expressed... is just plain rude. Just saying......

Thanks Candace and Dean,
I have been using a.c.v for years without any problems
lou

I apologize if I have offended anyone. I don't think I was rude but perhaps some interpreted my statements that way.
Donna, my referrence to "experts" was directed at people that have many years experience and are respected in the bird field.

I happen to consider Lorraine an expert as I know many of you also do. One day I was wondering who Lorraine would recommend under her site and clicked on her link... I was thrilled to see out of the very few links that Dean's site was there. I value Lorraines opinions and her beliefs in Canary Science only validated my confidence even more in buying his stock and learning from him. Now that I know him I can see why she recommends him. He has vast knowledge and I hopes he continues to share. I know he will, if not here he will on his web site. You can get the link and recommendation from Lorraine's website Sometimes language barriers, or different type sense of humors don't mesh well with others, also the written word is often interpreted in the wrong light. We all read things and correlate it as we see things. Again, I am very sorry if my wordings and humorous sarcasm upset anyone. The expert comment was written as a compliment to Dean and Kenny... that's all.

The canary man wrote:Back to Cindy comment regarding Listerine.
Hello, i would like to say that i respect and welcome any comment that will agree or disagree with my knowledge about any subject regarding canaries, there is no hard feeling at all ( No share No Learn ).
Mrs. Cindy if your concern is the alcohol that is in the Listerine why do not you use Listerine with out alcohol , in fact it seem like you did not pay attention to the active ingredients well Alcohol is under the Inactive ingredies .

Cindy please base your info on experience not on what you believe rather than that you may deprive some people from the true .

This post was very offensive and rude! Cindy was sharing her knowledge just as the "experts" were. In my opinion ... Cindy is also an expert in many areas.
The post is also very contradictive. First it is said that you welcome and respect any comment and then you blast her in the last paragraph. We all have a right to voice our opinions without being made to feel unknowledgeable in the subject area.
We are all just looking for advice and help when we come here. No one likes to be degraded. Ansd who says it is the "true"? it is an opinion....

Donna, I don't see that as rude... but then again, I know Dean and know his kind nature. There may be that language barrier that comes across as not appeasing and pleasing enough. Many people from other countries that learn our language will many times phrase things simple and to the point. Dean has come right out in personal converstions with me and express his true.. (aka opinions) I don't ever take offense because I know that is not his intentions... his intention is to share and help. This is his way and most that know him, love him But, he doesn't need me to defend him, he is well respected and loved without my 2 cents.
I am sorry you and Cindy has hurt feelings. I am sure Cindy is an Expert at things too.

No hurt feelings....... I way beyond that with you Candace.....
And yes... it was rude with the little finger shaking at her. Language barrier or not....

Thank you Donna....I agree. I do not care is someone is the smartest person in the world or not....rude is rude. And by the way this is an informal forum no need to address me as Mrs Cindy.

Let's just make one thing clear....no one knows anothers background, schooling, social status, whether someone's parent, husband or friend has made a grand contribution to the world or if the person lives simply and just has a good heart. I hold my knowledge close, others grand stand theirs....the bottom line is respect.

Dean has made 6 posts on this forum...I have been here for years, I would not dream of insulting someone the way that he did to me on the first page of Rour's topic thread. These petty insults need to stop, some make comments that are pointed and then later claim it was not intended for the individual. Problem is that once it is said, it is said.

We are here for a reason to help each other but the kinder we are to each other the better it will be.

cindy wrote:Thank you Donna....I agree. I do not care is someone is the smartest person in the world or not....rude is rude. And by the way this is an informal forum no need to address me as Mrs Cindy.

Let's just make one thing clear....no one knows anothers background, schooling, social status, whether someone's parent, husband or friend has made a grand contribution to the world or if the person lives simply and just has a good heart. I hold my knowledge close, others grand stand theirs....the bottom line is respect.

Dean has made 6 posts on this forum...I have been here for years, I would not dream of insulting someone the way that he did to me on the first page of Rour's topic thread. These petty insults need to stop, some make comments that are pointed and then later claim it was not intended for the individual. Problem is that once it is said, it is said.

We are here for a reason to help each other but the kinder we are to each other the better it will be.

Dear All,
I don’t like chat room in general but I like this chat room first time I saw. One thing I have learned that if we wanted to hear the truth from everyone meaning everyone should be able to handle the differences.
Diversity is great, differences are opportunities to learn.
Everyone s entitled to an opinion. It is up to individual to make choices. This is the most Global Chat room I have seen. It is diverse it means It might sound weird for one but for not another. Generosity and opened minded is the key once we are in a Global environment. I work with diversity group, business for 24 years and I learn new thing every day.
Be honest with you all, when I first got here – there are several post I have seen – I was offended by the members who is here for years and I feel bulled by those. But I have to remind myself that it is diverse – I should not take thing personally. Especially in writing – the communication can go way wrong.
I have great respects for everyone here in Finch room. I do strongly believe in every individual member is an Expert in something. We can all learn from each other no matter what…
I am not here to defend Dean, or Candace – I know Dean as a Friend and his kind heart – When I first talked to him he called me MS Q, Should I be offended?
Cindy- I don’t know you well YET  but I do strongly feel you are a super expert as well.
I do interact with International cultural differences whether at home or work, or social network so I do understand why. There are tons of Medical methods from East to West that so conflicted with each other in regarding science. But it works for whoever believes in it then it works. We make choices for our self. Whatever is best and work for East and West then I pick both and try- Sometimes it does not work me but it works for others.
All I just wanted to say is once we are in Globale environment – Please be open minded. I strongly believe that Generosity and opened minded is the global bridge that brings us together.
I respect those who agree with me and I respectfully disagree with those who do not agree with me. 
Thanks for sharing,

I have been following these posts with great interest and I do agree that some of the posts did come off as rude, offenive and accusing towards some people. I will not name any names since that has already been done but just because no one can interpret how you mean for things to come off over the internet and how other people see it maybe we should all try be a little more careful about how we say things?

On another note I love reading these very opinionated and at time heated discussions which give me new outlooks on different things and lastly, Candace I agree you need to start a post on limestone. I am dying to hear what you have found out!!!!

dfcauley wrote:

The canary man wrote:Back to Cindy comment regarding Listerine.
Hello, i would like to say that i respect and welcome any comment that will agree or disagree with my knowledge about any subject regarding canaries, there is no hard feeling at all ( No share No Learn ).
Mrs. Cindy if your concern is the alcohol that is in the Listerine why do not you use Listerine with out alcohol , in fact it seem like you did not pay attention to the active ingredients well Alcohol is under the Inactive ingredies .

Cindy please base your info on experience not on what you believe rather than that you may deprive some people from the true .

This post was very offensive and rude! Cindy was sharing her knowledge just as the "experts" were. In my opinion ... Cindy is also an expert in many areas.
The post is also very contradictive. First it is said that you welcome and respect any comment and then you blast her in the last paragraph. We all have a right to voice our opinions without being made to feel unknowledgeable in the subject area.
We are all just looking for advice and help when we come here. No one likes to be degraded. Ansd who says it is the "true"? it is an opinion....

I agree

I found the post rude as well

I have come to know Cindy, Dante and others over the internet with much pleasure in reading their posts. They should be treated with respect.!!!!