Egg Binding

For concerns related to avian illness and wellbeing.
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cindy
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by cindy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:34 am

In an emergency you can use Human Grade Liquid Calcium with D3. You can find it at a pharmacy.

Human grade Liquid Calcium with D3 for eggbinding. Given to the bird at the side of the beak, heat for warmth suggested
1 drop first hour
1 drop second hour (noticed an improvement)
Then 1 drop 3rd hour.
Then give 2 drop 2hrs later at least get 3/4 drops into the bird first day if you can.
view topic: http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... m&start=60
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Liquid Calcium for birds http://www.morningbirdproducts.com/prod ... mplus.html
http://www.morningbirdproducts.com/distributors.html
Liquid calcium (w/D3) is important to have if you breed birds

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Sally
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sally » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:42 am

The first video in the posting on the previous page by TheWhiteFinchAviary is typical of what an eggbound hen will look like--on the floor, droopy wings, squinty eyes. I've seen hens that looked much worse than this and still pulled through with administering of liquid calcium, heat, and humidity. Easiest way to supply humidity is to wet a small towel, wring it out, and then drape it across one end of the cage (away from the heat lamp).
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debbie276
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by debbie276 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:40 am

If you are giving them vitamin D3 you don't need to worry so much about UV and sunlight, that is what they get from the sun.
Having 3 lights, two 60 watt and a 150 watt blasting them are you sure your not over heating them? When birds get to hot they will hold their wings out and pant. If nothing else unless your cage is huge that is way too much light in my opinion.
I would definetly get my hands on some liquid calcium as soon as you can. Anyone with hens should have it on hand, breeding or not. It can be a lifesaver.

Best of luck
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Sojourner
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sojourner » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:18 pm

cindy - It was too late. She died within minutes of my post. The little white one seems to just be stunned. I don't know what I'm going to do - find her a home, or find her a friend. She is buried under the roses now, though I can hardly bear to think of her in the cold ground.

I'm sorry I was unable to post that after I had buried her, but literally as I was navigating to this thread, either the site or some vitally necessary node between here and there went down and stayed down until some time after I went to bed.

@Sally - yes, she looked much worse than that by the time I realized she was really sick. She was dead in under 24 hours from the time she first started acting like she was not up to par. The idea for providing humidity is a good one - sadly, I went the route of giving her a bath (which she loves).

eg, I put the bath in the bottom of the cage with her and she used it. But I didn't think to put the heat lamp on her first. I don't think getting chilled from the bath actually killed her, per se, (and it was warmish water) but I think it certainly hastened things along. She took her bath while I was searching for an incandescent bulb for the gooseneck table lamp. By the time I got the lamp set up for her, she was looking MUCH worse. Of course they always look much worse when they're wet, even when they're healthy and fit. But she was panting a lot more and had her head tilted back and she was blinking a lot.

@debbie276 - yes, I am absolutely certain there was not too much heat. That room is generally much cooler than the rest of the house, being on the north side of the house and it gets 0 sun at anytime during the day. Also 2 bulbs are in a floor lamp about a foot from the cage, and elevated above the cage (top of the cage is about chest high where its sitting, and the floor lamp is about 5' tall. The gooseneck table lamp is normally mounted on the top of a shelf (about 6' high) with one 60W equivalent CFL. There is actually a 4th CFL in the ceiling light which is mounted in the center of the 9.5' high ceiling.

Remember these are COMPACT fluorescents, all of them. And there were actually 4 CFLs involved, 3 60W equivalents and the 50-100-150 three-way equivalent. I didn't count the 4th bulb because its in a ceiling fixture under glass and I figured it didn't add much to the equation, being 9.5' off the ground and behind glass and all.

So - until I turned the gooseneck into a heat lamp with an incandenscent bulb - NONE of the lights were any nearer than a couple of feet to the cage. The heat is set to 72F for the house and I doubt it ever gets warmer than about 70F in that room, if that.

Even after I set the gooseneck up as a heat lamp, the temp in the cage was only about 75F at the top of the cage, and there was plenty of room for her to move closer to or farther from the heat. She moved closer to the heat before she died, but it was too little, too late.

Apparently the only pets it is "safe" for me to have are fish. I really thought I could keep a couple of finches without getting inordinately attached, but that didn't work out so well. Even not naming them apparently had little effect - I still got attached. *

I always kind of figured the turn-of-the-last-century child rearing advice to parents to NOT NAME THEIR BABIES until they were at least 5, so as to reduce the emotional impact of the child's likely death, was probably not all that effective at immunizing the parents from grief. Apparently that is also true of unnamed birds.

Thanks for the advice, and hopefully it will be helpful to others to prevent this from happening in the future.
Molly Brown 11/22/15
Pyewacket 6/15/17
Trudy 2/24/18

Turn towards home, and go there. Many overs, over woods and fields, streams and hills, many overs. Just turn towards home. How else would one go there? Perhaps it was a dream, and you have awakened from it. May the earth rise up beneath you, with home in your heart, and your person waiting.

debbie276
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by debbie276 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:29 pm

I'm so very sorry for your loss :(
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

devalenzia
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by devalenzia » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:35 am

Good Morning, I am new to this forum. After I lost a Java Sparrow hen while she was egg bounded I started reading some forums and this forum is really interesting.

It is difficult for me to accept that I lost the hen since this is the first time for me. I've watched the hen experience such pain but I couldn't do nothing. She was breathing heavily, laying on the floor with her tail going up and down and also her wing wide open. Barely moving and standing on her feet. :( :(

Thanks
David

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Sally
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sally » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:30 am

devalenzia So sorry you lost your hen. Egg binding is so hard on the hens, that sometimes we can't save them, no matter what. One thing I do recommend to all breeders is to keep a small bottle of liquid calcium on hand. It can be a lifesaver for hens who are egg bound. Even if someone is not breeding but has hens, it is good to keep this on hand, as hens can still lay eggs and get egg bound.

Welcome to the forum, though it is not under the best of circumstances. There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on finch care, especially breeding. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by C.Natalie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:13 pm

I brought home a delightful pair of society finches last May (2015). Until 3-4 days ago they've both been happy, healthy? The more I read, and more I observe The little hen, the more convinced I am becoming that egg binding is her problem.

How long can she endure without intervention?
Would it be more stressful to separate her into a smaller cage that I can keep on warm with a heating pad. I know her mate will be stressed when I reach into the cage and when she is gone.
Would it be hard on him if I just heat their larger cage?
I can offer a warm bath, do I need to set her in it?

I have to leave for an appointment; will look for some liquid calcium and hope for advice when I get home. Am grateful to have found you - have never joined a forum before.

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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Hilary » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:45 pm

C.Natalie I usually use a clamp light and clamp it to the cage, pointing it towards where the hen has been perching or her favorite spot on the bottom if she's sitting on the bottom of the cage. That way she can move away if too warm, move right up next to the light if she needs the heat, and I don't stress her out nor any other birds in the cage by chasing her around. Best of luck - hope she does okay!
Hilary

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Sally
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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sally » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:50 pm

Usually, hens will succumb to egg binding within about one day, if they haven't passed the egg. It is very stressful, and most of the time, they don't get over it without some help. Egg binding is normally a sign of either a lack of calcium, an inability to utilize the calcium that is provided, a lack of exercise, or a combination of all these.

Hens can be kept in their cage if you can provide a heat lamp and humidity in place. A heat lamp can be placed so it aims either at one end of a perch or even at the bottom of the cage, if that is where the hen is staying. She must be able to move away from the heat if needed. It is far worse to place the hen in a small cage with heat, and no way for the hen to get away from the heat. Humidity can be supplied by wetting a small towel, wringing it out well, and draping it over one part of the cage (away from the heat lamp).

Welcome to the forum, though it is not under the best of circumstances. There's lots of good reading at http://www.finchinfo.com about egg binding, plus all the information available in this topic. If you put your general location in your profile, it helps members to direct you to where to get supplies.
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National Finch & Softbill Society - http://www.nfss.org

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Re: Egg Binding (egg bound strawberry)

Post by terriergal » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Well I averted a disaster a couple nights ago with my little strawberry hen. They are all in a community cage for now, (strawberry pair, shafttail pair, and three male gouldians) and have no nests but I noticed she was not quite right during the day, looking a *little* fluffed. But then right before bed I noticed she was on the floor of the cage. I caught her up (she didn't really try to escape) and I could feel that egg right close to being expelled. I took the risk of gently massaging it out (really really gently and slowly, they are SO small) and it was a perfect little shell less egg.

I also noticed I have no liquid calcium on hand. I thought for sure I did. Sigh.

The male isn't in his nuptial plumage, but i did see him trying to mate with her now and then (and she was accepting of such attentions even amongst all that company and no nest!). They've been all getting vitamins periodically, and avian missing Link on their food. I can't get these strawberries to touch insects, freeze dried or fresh, or egg food! The shafttails eat up the mealworms, but the strawberries so far haven't bothered to touch them even when given the example of the shafttails.

She's doing much better, in a hospital cage, away from her apparently still very stimulating boyfriend and all the others.

Now her droppings are a little brownish yellow. It could be the vitamins in the water, but I had noticed some in the cage like this the other day before I put the vitamins in. I had meant to figure out which bird was producing these odd droppings but I hadn't gotten around to it yet and they have all been acting normal.

I hate to give her antibiotics if it isn't something that should be treated that way. The others all seem normal, singing and active. If it is a protozoal or bacterial issues they'd all have to be treated too I suppose? The fact that none of them seem 'off' makes me wonder if it is *not* a contagious issue.

here she is the other night (Saturday night) with her rubbery transparent egg.
Image
(I noticed she also needs her nails clipped.)

And here are her poops today (Monday). The circled ones are the freshest. Less of the runny irritated looking urine, looking more solid. There have been a few better ones since taking this pic.

Image

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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sojourner » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:29 pm

Every now and again a bird will lay what they call a "rubber egg". Basically the egg somehow manages to pass entirely without getting a shell.

Apparently this is not really necessarily indicative of much of anything. My Bengalese hen, Pyewacket, laid one a bit over a week ago. Scared the heck out of me. Then the next day she laid a normal egg. Nothing since - glad I finally got that stopped.

After reading some more about it, I remembered that this would occasionally happen with my grandmother's chickens when I was a kid. 50 years ago, memories are getting pretty dim by now, LOL! She didn't seem to think it was a big deal and apparently it usually isn't.

Here is a reference:

http://www.fresheggsdaily.com/2014/04/s ... s-and.html

In my case, the hen had access to 4 types of calcium at all times in the cage and I know she was utilizing at least some of that. My guys LOVE their ABBA mineral mix.

However since my son has been caring for the birds (due to painting and reno at my home) they haven't been getting their vitamins - the relevant one being D3.

SO I have instructed him how to add that to the water when I'm not around. Not that hard, but they weren't supposed to be there that long.

In Pyewacket's case, I think the trouble was that this was her first experience with actual egg laying. She is very young yet, maybe 20 months old. She is just now getting to the age where breeding is safer for her.

Hopefully I can continue to arrange things to discourage actual egg laying. Short of separating the pair, there's not much of a chance of fully preventing breeding.

So take heart - most likely there isn't a huge scary problem at the root of your rubber egg. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that is so.
Molly Brown 11/22/15
Pyewacket 6/15/17
Trudy 2/24/18

Turn towards home, and go there. Many overs, over woods and fields, streams and hills, many overs. Just turn towards home. How else would one go there? Perhaps it was a dream, and you have awakened from it. May the earth rise up beneath you, with home in your heart, and your person waiting.

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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Sally » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:58 pm

terriergal If she hasn't been getting enough calcium plus vitamin D3, that would explain the rubber egg. You were able to massage that out because there was no shell, but if there had been a shell, there is a great danger of the shell breaking inside her body.

I would not recommend any antibiotics, as soft eggs are almost always a result of not enough calcium, not an antibiotic problem. Liquid calcium once or twice a week right now will help, as will adding some oyster shell grit and/or some crushed egg shells.

BTW, Strawberry males can and do mate even when not in nuptial plumage, though they are much more likely to do so when they are in breeding mode. In the wild, the nuptial plumage is used to attract a hen.
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National Finch & Softbill Society - http://www.nfss.org

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Re: Egg Binding

Post by terriergal » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:55 am

I figured re the antibiotics and yes, I realize that regarding the egg and the chance of it breaking. I tried to be careful not to press directly on the egg but to mimic a peristalsis effect. I'm sure it wasn't comfortable, but then it wasn't comfortable having docs trying to turn my children when I was pushing them out either. :shock:

Her poops look better every time. She seems to resent being by herself in a separate cage. I will probably put her back with her beau and the rest tomorrow. The shafttails have been acting a little 'nesty' so they will probably go in their own cage.

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Re: Egg Binding

Post by Layla » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:26 am

dan78 hi, I found two eggs in my finches nest this morning and I'm really worried that my female may be egg bound, she's less vocal than usual and though she was active throughout the day she seems to have fallen from their nest at the top of the cage and is unable to fly back up to the it. She's sitting on her perches with drooping wings and seems to have given up on returning to the nest at all for the night.
I mix crushed oyster shell into their food dish everyday and they have a separate dish just for shell that they eat as well. She's never given me by reason to be concerned before this but I'm almost certain she's egg bound.
I'm nervous about separating her from her mate since they've been taking turns sitting on the eggs and I don't want to stress her out since they both hate being handled. I know that she won't let me get anywhere near her to help but I know I have to do something or she'll die, is there any way I can help her without disrupting her?

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