Need Help Possible Problem with "Unclean" Foster Societies?

[annague]

I've always had "clean" Soc's and no problems when they fostered another species (although they don't like to foster my fuzzy chicks ).

Recently I set up 3 of my Soc girls to hatch 4 fertile Parrot Finch eggs. They sat wonderfully well and when the babies hatched fed them beautifully.

However, the next day 3 babies were dead but had full crops. I assumed initially that they overzealous Societies (two are new at this) had accidentally overfed them to the point where they caused their death. This morning the fourth (and last) was ok but when I checked this afternoon he had died too -- and again, with a full crop.

Then I remembered I recently kept a friend's Spice Finch and (after a short quarantine) put her in with my Societies until my friend could take her back.

Is it possible my Societies are no longer clean and this is what caused the death of these babies?

[Cath1068]

I am so sorry you lost you little ones...... I am not sure how c&c passes but I would assume it could be passed thru feces and saliva ? I know there was a post here about it recently and I will look and see if I can find it for you....

Edit
Found it. I hope this can help you
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19430

[ac12]

I do not know if Parrot Finches are vulnerable to C&C.
You would have to do research on that to verify that as a posibility or eliminate it as a cause.

[CandoAviary]

Sorry to hear this about your chicks.
I assume ity sould be possible that the spice infected the socoeties if it was carrying something.... always a risk when we bring in new birds..even with a quarentine.
Could be other things also...like you said, over stuffed. Could be a genetic problem... have you bred this pair of PF before with sucess?
Sometimes you just won't ever know.

[dan78]

Could there be a chance that the fosters didn't sit on them and they got cold, I have experienced this with gouldians as babies were all feed well good sized crop and dead the next morning, found out with the next clutch that the pair would sit for about 4 days then at night would sit on a perch instead of their chicks and lost another clutch as I couldn't get in the aviery at that time of night or I would have had more dead birds.

[annague]

Thank you Cath for the link. And thank you all for your words of advice.

I think all finches are vulnerable to C&C (although some species more than others). Someone correct me if I'm wrong -- !!

I appreciate the help more than you know. I am still not sure what happened but I do know the Socs were sitting at night -- a friend helped me figure out that their crops WERE swollen -- (beyond the food they contained) which is an indication of yeast. Three lived only one night and the fourth lived two nights so they passed very quickly.

I am going to treat my Soc's for C&C and try to eliminate any other possible causes that could have led to the deaths and just hope for the best.

[ac12]

Anna
As I understand it, C&C it is not curable. It can be controlled to some degree, but once the birds have it, they have it forever.

[annague]

Yes, I think you are right, Gary. If they have it I will have to get rid of them and do without Soc fosters or get other species to be fosters.

However, from the notes I've read so far I am leaning toward a yeast infection. C&C doesn't usually cause death so quickly -- (usually it's 10-14 days after hatch or shortly after fledging).

All four babies were gone two and half days after birth (and three of them after just one night). So I believe it may have been something related to the ingestion/metabolism of food -- that and their bloated crops make me think that yeast is the culprit.

[ac12]

That sound about right.
I have no experience with C&C, only from what I've read.

[debbie276]

That sound about right.
I have no experience with C&C, only from what I've read.

Gary,
Didn't you just have a chick that failed to thrive right around fledging time, which is a classic Cochlosoma symptom, fostered by society's you were testing? How did you rule out Cochlosoma?

[ac12]

Debbie
The chick was tossed still hatching in its egg.
I moved the hatching egg to the societies.

I had some feedback that "maybe" the parents tossed the chick because it had an inherent problem. So it may have died for other reasons. If that is true, that would invalidate my test, as I don't know why the chick died. Hence my current testing with a chick that was not tossed.

If this one survives then they are probably clean, if it does not then I have to consider them carriers.

[debbie276]

From these two threads you said you took a chick from it's gouldian parents to give it to the society hens to test the society's. I didn't see anything about moving a tossed hatching egg. You are testing those society's again with another chick? Seems to me having the birds vet tested would be a LOT more accurate.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19605
"I did not mean to give the society hens a blue chick to test them with. Oh well, what's done is done. Now the wait to see if the society hens can keep it alive to weaning."
"I would normally wait for a tossling. However because the parents were being good this year, that wasn't happening. And I needed to find out if the hens are clean or not, as the society hens have been in extended quarantine for a year."

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19816
"Well it just fledged."
"This little guy just is not begging like his siblings downstairs.
The 2 siblings are BEGGING as soon as the parents go into the nest.
This guys hardly begs. I was watching the societies. They go up to him and make the head movement like they are regurgitating and going to feed the chick. But the chick just sits there w/o begging."
"Right now, it is the CHICK that is not eating, rather than the societies not feeding it. I have been watching the societies go up to feed it many times with their beak up against its beak, and the chick would keep its beak closed. It accepts the food from the societies only a portion of the time that they try to feed it."
"It is possible that the societies are NOT "clean," and are carriers of C&C. And thus the chick has C&C, which could be why it is not eating as much. In which case I have to dispose of these societies or give them away, but NOT to a bird shop or anyone owning gouldians."

[L in Ontario]

Let's all try to remember this thread is about Anna and her Societies.

[debbie276]

Let's all try to remember this thread is about Anna and her Societies.

Sorry Liz you are right.