Some problems with settling in my new birds.

[Finnie]

Hi all. I just got my first finches about a week ago. I wasn't planning to get finches. I'm a budgie breeder, and I saw an ad on Craigslist for a nice large cage, that would be great for my budgies. But it came with 4 society finches and 2 Lady Gouldians.

I've always admired the Gouldians, so I went for it. I figure, if I don't care for keeping finches, I can just sell them after a while.

So since then I've been tring to do a lot of research on finches, and I'm starting to get attached to the little guys.

BUT, there are some problems. The man was selling them because they were his wife's, and she died. He's not into birds himself. He hasn't been taking too great of care of them since she died (understandably), and she probably wasn't feeling all that up to caring for them before that. She had a heart problem.

So their cage was horribly filthy, but I figured I could clean that up. What I didn't think about was that the birds themselves might be unwell. They looked OK there, and for the first few days here. But now I'm noticing bare patches on the backs of the societies, and the female Gouldian is sleeping way too much. WAY too much.

Here are some photos of the societies. I hope the bare part is clear enough. I can hardly see it, and I already know what I'm looking at. The down isn't missing, so it's not bald to the skin. It looks like grey patches.

I've tried searching all over the internet for anything like this, but mostly I keep getting stuff about bald heads and necks. I'm hoping someone on here will recognize what causes this, and how to treat it.

Ideas that have ocurred to me are: Mites or lice? Lack of nutrition? Plucking from stress or behavioral problems? Dry skin or dirty feathers due to lack of bathing? (I was afraid they would catch a chill, so I haven't given them any baths, but then I learned that they NEED baths- so maybe I caused this?)

As for the female Gouldian, I've put a heat lamp over the cage for her, but she stays away from that area. At least it must be helping with the overall temp in the cage.

She's not noticeably fluffed up. There are no other symptoms. No sneezing, discharge or any other respiratory signs. Her eyes, when she opens them, look good. I can't tell about her droppings, because I have no clue what a finch dropping is supposed to look like normally. So far it has all been off-white chalky looking little balls. Nothing at all like budgie poop. Today there were a few that actually looked like they had a separate solid and separate liquid part. But I don't know if that means they are turning bad, or if they have been bad all along and they are turning good.

So if anyone can describe good finch poop to me, I would love it!

I feel bad if I have over-stressed them due to transitioning them poorly. On the other hand, I hope they don't have some serious illness.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions about what I should be doing better with them.

[Lisa]

Hi Finnie, welcome to the forum!

First off, I don't think you are stressing them due to a bad transition. You've probably done them a big favor. It will take a little bit for them to settle in but it's a better situation for them.

The first thought I had when I spotted the balding on the society's backs (it really doesn't look too bad) is that they are probably plucking and trying to use the feathers for nest building. I have societies and let me tell you they will try to build a nest with anything they can get their beaks on, lol. Do you know the sexes of them? They are cute, they look like my set that I call the Three Stooges (their real names are Forrest, Jenny, and Lt. Dan)

The gouldian could be ill or it could just be she's a little stressed over the whole move to a new home. I would keep an eye on her, keep the heat lamp available to her. Does she interact with the mate at all?

Would you believe that even though I have 30+ finches, I can't really describe "normal finch poop" to you. It's usually like a lumpy white, but I have seen occasional colors or changes in consistency that didn't amount to much. I am sure others can chime in with special types of poop that might mean specific things.

[Finnie]

Thank you, Lisa!

Nesting material, you think? Well, that's possible, because I only gave them some nesting material on the day I set up the clean quarantine cage. Since then I have been trying to fiddle with the inside of the cage as little as possible. They certainly used up what I did give them right away.

I've read the pros and cons of letting them have a nest. They came with two in their cage that they all piled in to sleep at night. (Not the Gouldians though.) I didn't want to disrupt their familiar routine, so I transferred their dirty old nests to the new cage, in the same positions they were in. I found an egg in it, too, but I have no idea if it was old or new. It doesn't seem likely to me that they would have laid if after they moved here, but maybe. So I left the egg in the nest. Sometimes I can see it in there, and sometimes it must be moved a bit.

So I've learned something now, that I can't skimp on their nesting materials any more than I can skimp on their baths. I will add more this morning, and keep them in good supply.

IF this helps them, how long do you think it will take for their feathers to grow back?

The female Gouldian doesn't seem to interact at all. The only times I really see her move are when I disturb her. Although I guess she moves to a different spot once in a while. I'm pretty sure I have seen her eating. She doesn't make any noise. (The male is pretty cute. He sings when I am in there, and I almost feel like he is singing to me as opposed to the other birds.)

[skythrutrees]

I take care of an aviary in a house of people with disabilities. They have an aviary service who changes out the birds frequently. In those birds, I will see occasional bald spots when they are trying to nest and need material. So I agree, that may be the problem.

FYI: I have 8 societies, and I let them have their their nests at night, but take it out during the day. It keeps them from continual egg laying, which can cause health problems. I also have fake eggs to try to control the egg laying.

I also let my societies out during the day, and I call them my flying mice. They get into everything!

Good luck!

[Finnie]

FYI: I have 8 societies, and I let them have their their nests at night, but take it out during the day. It keeps them from continual egg laying, which can cause health problems.

Thank you for this idea. It sounds like it could be a really useful option!

I have fake budgie eggs, which I think would be too big, and some fake smaller eggs which are blue. Those might work if color doesn't matter.

I really, really hope that I don't have to deal with a mite or lice problem. I am planning to give them all a tiny drop of ivermectin, just in case.

[Dayna]

You can give them all a shot of electrolytes in their water for a pick me up. Is your female gouldian eating and drinking well? Is she showing any other signs of being sick other than just sleeping a lot? Does she move away from you if you put your hand near her or does she let you touch her?

[Sally]

It's not unusual to hear of birds that don't get the best of care when their owner passes or has such health problems that they can't properly care for them any longer. These birds are probably just stressed and given time, should be fine.

I would toss those old nests and start fresh. For nesting material, don't use that white string stuff that comes in little boxes and is sold at pet shops, it is too fine for them and can get wrapped around their feet/legs. You can offer them timothy hay, burlap cut into small squares and pulled apart into strings, paper towels cut into strips, etc. Don't worry about upsetting the Societies, they are tough, adaptable little birds, and the more you fiddle with them, the more they will get used to you. Same with the Gouldians, they may act frightened when you put your hand in their cage, but the more you work with them, they will calm down.

Since you found an egg, you have at least one female, most likely one of the Societies. If you hear one or more of the Societies singing, then you have a male. Societies are great at breeding, so unless you want babies, just toss those eggs. If the egg laying continues, you can always hold on to those eggs, and then when you have three or four, place them back in the nest--they now will not develop, yet it gives the Societies something to think they are incubating. Just watch them, as they will sneak another live egg or two in on you. You can mark the dummy eggs with a dot of permanent marker so you know which ones are the dummies.

I'd give them daily baths. They love it, and it is good for their skin and feathers. And good nutrition will do wonders. Besides a basic good finch mix, if you will give them some veggies and eggfood daily, this will improve their overall health as well. There is a lot of good nutrition information at the Finch Information Center, linked at left.

Good luck with them, and careful, it is easy to get addicted to finches!

[ac12]

I spray all my new birds a mite/lice spray, just in case. That eliminates that as a problem on new birds.

I also give them NV powder. That is a sugar based electrolite that helps with the stress of transport and transition into a new home.

As Sally said, get rid of the old nest and let them start with a clean new nest. If you have the straight cut shredder, you can shred newspaper into long strips that would work as nesting material. Or go to PetSmart and get a small bag of Orchard Grass or similar. I tried burmuda grass and the dried grass seems too hard. They can't bend it to fit the nest.

I give birds that need to regrow feathers chopped up hard boiled eggs + veggies at least once a day. Once the feathers grow in, I cut back to 2 or 3x a week.

When the bath water is too cold, I had/have a few birds that go into what I think is a cold water shock after getting out of the bath. So, during the winter or when it is cold, I zap the bath water in the microwave, to take the chill out of the water. That way they don't get COLD water shock. I do 35 seconds for 32 oz of water. Then stick my finger in the water to test that it is not too hot. I have one society that I have to make her bath water even warmer, for her not to go into cold water shock.

[Finnie]

You can give them all a shot of electrolytes in their water for a pick me up. Is your female gouldian eating and drinking well? Is she showing any other signs of being sick other than just sleeping a lot? Does she move away from you if you put your hand near her or does she let you touch her?

She is not showing any other symptoms. For a while there, it did look like she was sitting with her tail hinged. But I was very pleased to see her improve yesterday. She didn't seem to be sleeping at all. Her eyes were open and she appears active now. (I haven't seen her interact at all with the male, you would think they were strangers to each other.)

She definitely won't let me touch her! But I like the idea that the more I work in their cage, the more they will get used to me. They seem interested in watching me when I'm not doing anything scary, and I think they like to listen to the noises I make to them. So I think there is hope for "some" kind of relationship between us.

[DanteD716]

Goudlians are known to sleep alot, or be lazy. If she is not puffed, or showing any other symptoms I am sure she will perk up fine.

Society finches are crazy nester, give them lots of nesting material or they will use their bestfriends feathers for nesting material!

[Finnie]

I would toss those old nests and start fresh. For nesting material, don't use that white string stuff that comes in little boxes and is sold at pet shops, it is too fine for them and can get wrapped around their feet/legs. You can offer them timothy hay, burlap cut into small squares and pulled apart into strings, paper towels cut into strips, etc.

OK, I won't use the white string. I have timothy hay already. It seems a little stiff, but they took it all anyway. I would have never thought of burlap, what a great idea! The man gave me all the stuff his wife had, and the nesting material is like a colored puff. Reminds me of purple cotton candy, only a little heavier. I can see that they've been pulling on it, but I don't see purple inside the nests yet.

Since you found an egg, you have at least one female, most likely one of the Societies. If you hear one or more of the Societies singing, then you have a male.

That's what I figured, too. The man said they had bred for his wife and she had sold some of the offspring. He told me that the tan colored one is one of their chicks. (The tan colored one didn't make it into that photo I posted.) I have seen three of them singing for sure, so I know there is only one female, and which one she is. I figured there had to be a female unless the wife had accidentally sold the mother when she was selling the others. I did think that there was a possibility that the egg was from the Gouldian hen, but I felt that that was unlikely.

Societies are great at breeding, so unless you want babies, just toss those eggs. If the egg laying continues, you can always hold on to those eggs, and then when you have three or four, place them back in the nest--they now will not develop, yet it gives the Societies something to think they are incubating. Just watch them, as they will sneak another live egg or two in on you. You can mark the dummy eggs with a dot of permanent marker so you know which ones are the dummies.

Thank you for these tips. I haven't decided yet whether I want to let them breed or not, but it is nice to have a reperatoire of ways to control it when I want them to rest. Like now.

Baths: check.
Egg food: check.
Veggies: I've learned that I have to grate and chop. They don't gnaw like my budgies. Check.

Good luck with them, and careful, it is easy to get addicted to finches!

OMGsh!! You aren't kidding! I am already researching into Owls and Star finches!!

[Finnie]

I spray all my new birds a mite/lice spray, just in case. That eliminates that as a problem on new birds.

I think the ivermectin will cover that. But I was concerned about whether there might be mite or lice eggs laying around. I've bleached out their old cage very well, so I think that's OK. Now to replace those old nests.

I also give them NV powder. That is a sugar based electrolite that helps with the stress of transport and transition into a new home.

I've not heard of NV powder. I know Pedialyte for infants can work. I'm sure I can find an electrolyte somewhere.

If you have the straight cut shredder, you can shred newspaper into long strips that would work as nesting material.

Oh, that's a great idea! I have lots of scraps of blank newsprint that I hate to throw away, and I wondered if shredding them for the finches would make pieces that were too wide. (Is a straight cut shredder different than a normal one?)

When the bath water is too cold, I had/have a few birds that go into what I think is a cold water shock after getting out of the bath.

This is nice to know. I will keep an eye out for it. Thanks.

[Finnie]

Goudlians are known to sleep alot, or be lazy. If she is not puffed, or showing any other symptoms I am sure she will perk up fine.

Society finches are crazy nester, give them lots of nesting material or they will use their bestfriends feathers for nesting material!

Thank you. I guess I have a lot to learn about the quirks of the different species!

Well, I did wonder if each bird was plucking himself, or whether they pluck their neighbor. I expected to see them preening each other, but it has been minimal.

I have seen them nibble on each other's necks. It reminds me of baboons picking bugs off of each other. They were picking something up and eating it. I hope it was feathers, and not bugs!

[ac12]

The straight cut shredder makes LONG noodle-like cuts. These the bird can use like long blades of grass. If it is too long, just cut with a sissors to shorten it.
I think it was Liz that posted that idea.

The cross-cut shredders make SHORT noodles. The new ones make even smaller pieces. The idea is it is harder to reconstruct the page when the pieces are smaller. These don't work very well for making nesting material, the pieces are too small/short.

[Dayna]

Here is a home-made recipe for electrolytes

http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18044