Sneezing blue back Gouldian

[skyjump100]

Hi,
My lovely blue boy, who has 5 eggs in the nest with his partner, seems to be sneezing a lot which he hasnt done before. Can finches catch cold or is this a symptom of something else. Should I be worried?

Cheers

[nixity]

Can you by any chance get a video of the sneezing?
How long has this been going on?

[skyjump100]

Hi Tiffany,
So far I've not had any success getting a video however I will keep trying. The 'sneezng' just started this evening. He has settled down to sleep and seems to have stopped for mow. Will keep an eye on him and see how it goes.

[nixity]

Did he bathe today? Maybe he just got a little water in his sinuses or something?

Hope it's temporary!

[CandoAviary]

Air sac mites will usually show symptoms when goulds go to roost. First signs are sneezing and rubbing beak on perches trying to expell the mites. If not treated the bird will continue to get worse.
There are other things that cause sneezing, allergies, molds, dust... pretty much the same thing that makes us sneeze.
Ususally a cold virus or repiratory infection will show other signs also...such as fluffed feathers, sleepiness, inactivety, and lack of appetite.
Since he is in the best alot and if you have used hay, or grasses especially alfalfa grass it could be a mold issue.

[skyjump100]

Thanks Candace,
You have me slightly worried now as both birds do a lot of beak wiping. Time for me to research air sac mites I think!!!!!!

Always something to learn!!

[nixity]

Beak wiping is a natural part of Gouldian (and other finch) behavior and doesn't necessarily indicate anything, so.. don't freak out.

I would never view beak wiping itself as a sign of something pathological going on.
They beak wipe for totally non-pathological reasons on a daily basis.

That said there is a difference between beak wiping and beak/nasal or face rubbing where they rub one side of the beak or face for 5-10 seconds at a time on the perch as if they're scraping something off.
This doesn't always mean something is wrong, either, they could just have something on their face or sometimes in their eye that they are rubbing out.

[skyjump100]

Thanks Tiffany,
He doesnt seem to be displaying any other symptoms so I'm reassured plus the female doesnt seem to have any symptoms apart from the beak wiping and that only seems to be a quick wipe on each side.

I'll keep monitoring

Thanks again!

[CandoAviary]

Yes, I should of said excessovely wiping beak coupled with sneezing, sorry.
You don't need to get too concerned about ASM (air sac mites) every breeder treats their flocks with iverlux or scatt for maintenance of these pesky mites, though not all admit it. Very easy to control. Meds are easy to administer on the bird or in the water. It may be something else but hopefully not a mold or respiratory infection that would require antibiotics or more meds. If allergies, then not much you can do other than have an air purifyer/filter installed.
I do think if is wise to research and learn about common ailments that effect the species we keep. I have found that the gouldian and canary are the 2 most prone to ASM. Many birds have them but their own bodies keep tham in check within numbers that they can handle.. but under stress of moving, molting, breeding, etc.; the bird's immune system becomes a bit more stressed and the mites can get out of hand. Anyway, here are a couple of links to help you inderstand this comdition. I admire keepers that want to learn how to provide the best care for their birds
If it is ASM and left untreated, damage can be permanent to the air sacs. Also in severe cases when pesticides are finally administered sometimes so many mites die that the bird asphyxiate on the dead mite bodies. Also the dead mites can cause bacterial infection of the respiratory system. Monoriting is good but if the bird needs pesticides or meds, prompt action is always best for fast results with minimal damage.
Have you had the gouldians long? during quarentine did you treat for ASM?

http://ladygouldian.com/content/why-all ... -sac-mites

https://ladygouldian.com/content/first- ... festations

https://ladygouldian.com/content/topica ... feet-mites

http://mfgouldianfinches.com/Issues/Gou ... sites.html

[nixity]

Here is another link for your consideration (Bob Bills is an avian vet and a also a participating member of the Gouldian Keeper forum - when this topic came up earlier this year, it was interesting to me that when he asked for specific details the conversation sort of went mute)..

http://www.geocities.com/bjbills1/ASM.html

The only scientific studies mentioned in the LG.com articles were performed only as recently as 1995(?) and were all performed on wild Gouldian Finches in Australia.
In the scientific papers, the mites do not survive long unless they are in a moist environment (nasal passages, drinking tube lips or moist edges of watering containers, etc.).

As much as I find myself curiously interested in what happened with Laraine and Kristen I find the gloom and doom of it all a bit overwhelming and the lack of useful/helpful information frustrating and unsettling.

I also have a hard time putting my faith into something that does not have validated scientific protocol behind it, and where the site is trying to sell me a product where the advice is basically medicating my birds non-stop (it's advised that I use it weekly for upwards of 6 months-8 months straight, and monthly the rest of the year.. sounds like an awesome way to pocket a lot of money from a lot of s76 sales!!).
Sorry.. blah..

[debbie276]

... every breeder treats their flocks with iverlux or scatt for maintenance of these pesky mites, though not all admit it.

Not sure why you would say this but for the record I do NOT treat my flock with any ASM medicine for maintenance.

I treat once when they are purchased with scatt during quarantine, don't even follow up with another treatment 21 days after the first. I only had one hen purchased with ASM that was treated during quarantine, recovered and never had a relapse or spread it to any others. I've had my birds for over 12 years without ASM even though I don't routinely treat for it.

[nixity]

... every breeder treats their flocks with iverlux or scatt for maintenance of these pesky mites, though not all admit it.

Not sure why you would say this but for the record I do NOT treat my flock with any ASM medicine for maintenance.

I treat once when they are purchased with scatt during quarantine, don't even follow up with another treatment 21 days after the first. I only had one hen purchased with ASM that was treated during quarantine, recovered and never had a relapse or spread it to any others. I've had my birds for over 12 years without ASM even though I don't routinely treat for it.

Ditto. Although I do perform a follow up treatment while in quarantine "just in cases."
But as with you, I don't routinely treat my birds as part of a maintenance program.

[dan78]

Hi skyjump yes finches and all birds are able to get a cold which would relate to sneezing and sometimes fluffed up also. Best treatment would be to add heat to the cage and let nature take its course. If you start to hear wheezing and or clicking then there is a chance for ASM. There could also be the chance of sinus issues or respiratory issues also but for now I would consider just some heat and check wellbeing in about 12 hours.
As for maintenance medicating each to their own I say. I don't do this and only treat birds as they are sick. My quarantine is place birds in cage with fresh food and water and wait for a month to see if any issues pop up. At the month period they then get a dose of wormer and have another dose two weeks later with ivomec. After 6weeks if they are sick I think the problem would have raised it ugly head by then. I'm a believer if using meds periodically when the time comes for it to fix the issue then it may not work or work effectively .

[kenny66]

I think it is really easy to overthink and overcomplicate supposed symptoms. Most birds can sneaze from time to time and even relatively constant beak wiping is not an indication of ASM. I never treat my birds routinely with what is essentially a poison unless I hve a definite diagnosis. It is really easy to determine if your bird has ASM from simply listening to it when it is in your hand as the clicking and wheezing sound is unmistakable. The mite finds it difficult to survive outside the airways and is fairly inneffective at cross contamination. Healthy birds can supress the symptoms by their immune systems keeping light mite infections under control. I have NEVER had a case where mites have spread from an infected bird in quarantine to the main aviaries. Likewise I have NEVER had mites spread from the quarantine area into the heavily populated canary bird rooms. I quite recently took a bunch of rescue canaries (8) kept in terrible conditions. 2 had airsac mite and 6 didnt even though they were all kept in the same horrible cage together. I wouldnt worry about the sneezing unless the bird is fluffed up. Birds by the way, get rhinitis but a different cold virus to us humans.

[CandoAviary]

It is really easy to determine if your bird has ASM from simply listening to it when it is in your hand as the clicking and wheezing sound is unmistakable. The mite finds it difficult to survive outside the airways and is fairly inneffective at cross contamination. Healthy birds can supress the symptoms by their immune systems keeping light mite infections under control.

I agree ASM infestation is easy to detect, but a newcomer many times doesn't know what to listen for. And they many times compare it to human symptoms and automatically think " cold" and jump to use of an antibiotics or worse, a combination drug, that ends up doing more damage and no good.
The other way that is for sure is wetting the throat and looking at the mites through the skin as described in the article that nixity posted.
And yes, many birds do indeed keep the mites in check.. that's why so many times buyers will buy a perfectly normal breathing bird at the fair and with the stress of the move to new hime may just be enough to bring the problems to the service as the stress weakens the birds immune system. That is why a quarentine period is so important. The choice to treat automatically, like many do, or whether to observe and treat only as necessary is a choice for each person to make.
I prefer to medicate/poison only if necessary but if I have a bird that sneezes or coughs I will make night checks to the aviary/cage to listen to the flock. Also examine the suspect bird in hand. Early detection and treatments are so much easier on the bird and less likely to cause of permenant damage to the birds voice and breathing abilities.
I have seen birds with such damage that once treated for the parasites the bird never regained full breath or song. I think these get termed asmatic birds.