Eggbound but never an egg?

[Nerien]

I have a Society finch who periodically looks eggbound. Normally, she looks a bit fat and she is the only of the Societies who just seems to sit all day rather than fly around. Not more than a couple/few years old (not sure, was given to me). In the past, she starts to look like maybe heading for trouble, then it goes away. Never have seen an egg. Once, looked suspicious enough I gave her calcium. She looked better by next morning. No egg.

Came home Friday after being out for four hours, she was puffy, big huge poo lump hanging from her butt area feathers, butt picked bare, underbelly so swollen I thought it had been picked bare, also.

Caught her, dripped calcium on her beak, confirmed she was swallowing it. Gently washed her bottom until I could get the hanging poo lump off. She was huge, afraid of handling her for fear of breaking what looked like a dozen eggs inside. Put her in little hospital cage with heat lamp. Started to suggest to daughter that it wasn't looking good, so it wouldn't be a shock when we found her dead, which I expected in only a few minutes, honestly.

Repeated calcium a few times, not very frequent, again, afraid of handling her with such a full belly. But see her eat and drink. next day, she looks better for a while. But barely a trace of poo in the little cage, had put white paper towel down on bottom. Later on, she looks worse again, big crusty, smelly, yellowish poo lump stuck on her again. Clean it off, Spread vaseline on her bottom, now I understand why, keep the poo from sticking. Later on, better. Give calcium a few times. Keep heat lamp on. Belly is smaller when she looks better, larger when she looks worse. Still barely any poo in cage.

But no egg comes out. Ever.

Today, she looks much better. Chirping, eating, drinking. Hardly swollen at all. More poop in cage. But no egg.

If she was so bound up she looked ready to split her belly open, how can she get better without passing the egg? Even if she had eaten it, there would have been a wet stain on the white paper towel where it had been. She's in the back bedroom where it's quiet, and it's safer to have a small cage, cats cannot get in there, cannot get to cage and knock it around or anything. so she isn't under constant observation, but there would be evidence if an egg had passed and been eaten.

What is going on? Could she be reabsorbing a fully formed, full-sized egg?

[EyesofFreedom]

Is there a chance she could be laying the egg in the food dish and then eating it before you see it? if she did it there it would be very difficult to detect

[30 Seconds to Bob]

Maybe she's just constipated? It can happen to birds. Bob

[Nerien]

But then where did the poo go? Last time I cleaned off the goo, she was still hugely swollen. Now she's not, and there's no big poo in the cage, nor do all the small poos equal the size her belly was.

I think an egg in the little food cup would have goo'd the seed, when she cracked the shell to eat it, the white would have run all over the seed. It's been perfectly dry and not clumped.

The little poos she's been making have a yellow wet spot around the small, thin solids. But none of the spots are abnormally big, so if her guts were full of liquid that couldn't pass until the poo got out, again, where is it?

Very puzzling that there is no evidence of whatever was wrong and how it got fixed.

and can you tell me how to treat a constipated finch so it doesn't happen again? I hate seeing her go through this again and again, and if it's getting worse like it did this time, she can't last long.

She would be the third chocolate and white-pied female finch we've lost. We're beginning to think that coloring is cursed. certainly feel that we'd never buy another one who looks like this, it's the only birds we've lost.

[30 Seconds to Bob]

and can you tell me how to treat a constipated finch so it doesn't happen again? I hate seeing her go through this again and again, and if it's getting worse like it did this time, she can't last long.

Never actually had it happen to a bird, but for canaries it was recommended to withhold seed and offer ONLY fruits and veggies for a couple of days and a drop of mineral oil down the beak twice daily. I can tell you I HAVE treated an impacted leopard gecko with the mineral oil and it worked wonders. Just took a few days to work. Bob

[Lisa]

Ruth -

Two things ... one, I don't think you're supposed to have them actually swallow the calcium drops. Just touch it to the beak (it will be absorbed). They usually will pass an egg in about 15-30 minutes.

The other is that I have one hen that is elderly I guess in finch terms (she's about 6 or 8 years old now). She had a situation where she was becoming eggbound but could not even form a hardened shell around the egg. Therefore, when she "passed" the egg, it was just a gooey mess that looked like a lot of goopy poop. She, too, had wet vent (from all the egg - yolk and liquid, no shell). This sounds like what you may be seeing. They say a hen will develop this if she does not have enough calcium over time to build up calcium reserves. The calcium drops are saving her life but she still needs a while to build it up in her system naturally. Offer her lots of oyster shells, cuttlebone in both forms (full size as normal and you can smash it up in small pieces, they'll always eat it that way even if they won't use the full cuttlebone), egg shells, etc. Over a few days she should start returning to normal. Treat her with calcium drop to the beak in the meantime any time she has a problem.

Best of luck with her.

P.S. Twice (a few days apart) this happened to my hen, Peanut (Twinkle & Sprinkles mom) and both times she looked SOOOO bad, I thought there was no possible way she could survive. But thankfully she did, she's alive and well and no further problems.

[debbie276]

An old time breeder told me to always keep epsom salts available for the finch to prevent constipation, it's part of my mineral mix that I offer them. Checked the world wide web to confirm and here's an article saying the same thing.

Constipation:
This problem can pretty well be eliminated by keeping a small container of Epsom Salt (magnesium Sulphate) crystals or grains available in the aviary at all times. The birds will use it in small quantities when needed. Do not however make this available for psittacines. They over indulge with drastic gastric effects.

http://www.nfss.org/articles/article/goulds-1.htm

[debbie276]

Two things ... one, I don't think you're supposed to have them actually swallow the calcium drops. Just touch it to the beak (it will be absorbed).

They have to swallow the liquid calcium. People direct you to put a drop on their beak so that the drop runs into the mouth to swallow and your not shooting the liquid in their throat possibly aspirating them, but it needs to be swallowed.

[Lisa]

Quote:
Two things ... one, I don't think you're supposed to have them actually swallow the calcium drops. Just touch it to the beak (it will be absorbed).


They have to swallow the liquid calcium. People direct you to put a drop on their beak so that the drop runs into the mouth to swallow and your not shooting the liquid in their throat possibly aspirating them, but it needs to be swallowed.

Interesting. I've always applied a drop to my finger (washing hands thoroughly first, of course) and then touched it to their beak. It seems to work pretty quickly, usually they deliver an egg in about 15 minutes.

[Tammy]

maybe some crushed hard boiled egg a couple times a week might help too. -tammy

[Nerien]

Thanks greatly for the info.

Will have hubby get some epsom salts. Worth a try.
All cages have a cuttlebone, the societies have also had a mineral block, they touch neither. Ever. Had started putting ground cuttlebone on their food, seeing her going through her cycling of 'is she going to have a real problem or not'.

When her bottom was caked with poo, she was still hugely swollen, like she had a budgie egg or larger in there. The swelling has gone down, but no poo or goo when it does. So weird.

Could it be gas? Gassy and constipated, so the gas isn't passing and she's bloated, not eggbound? I only have the thick white human calcium solution, she's had quite a bit of that over the last three days, but no egg passed. The calcium would have acted like Tums, wouldn't it, and relieved gassiness?

But why would she be so gassy? Her 5 companions aren't, they all eat the same stuff. Her poor belly was so swollen it was a giant lump of bare skin protruding below her. That's why I had thought she had plucked her belly, too. But no, when the swelling went down, she's fully feathered there. Poor Birdy!

Today she looks really good. If she has no more episodes today, I guess she goes back into her home cage either tonight or tomorrow.


They do make birdie probiotics, right? Maybe she needs some of that to set things straight.

Poor little birdy. So not fun.

[Nanajennie]

Nerien. Lucy exhibits the same behavior. Sometimes no egg (they may be eating it). And recently there were two eggs in one day (could be her daughter laid it).

I hope everything works it way out! Whether egg or poo!!

[Ginene]

Nerien
I have no clue what is happening to your sweet girl . I just wanted to say that it seems some birds are predisposed to certain problems. Like all animals, I guess...This little one probably always had these issues. It's so sad that she has to go through this (and sad for you as her mommy too). Maybe it is a gastro-intestinal thing??? Maybe you can email Laraine from ladygouldian.com with the details and see if she has ever encountered this before. Good luck with her. She is very lucky to have such an attentive and dedicated mommy

[Nerien]

Today she looks great, and is pooing out a storm. But she had already lost the swollen belly yesterday before all this poo momentum. Guess birds can get gas?

Found I did have some birdie probiotic from the budgies, still good, so have sprinkled some of that on her food. Will continue when she returns to her home cage, certainly won't hurt the rest of her buddies to get some, either.

So distressing to see her get like this, especially since, like I said, this is the third chocolate & white pied female society, the very first one, that my daughter picked out, died less than a week after we brought her home, now I know it was egg-binding, but the egg had broken inside her so there was no chance. The second is the one who escaped the cage and flew straight into the cat's mouth., all we found later on were some feathers. Now the third one is getting life-threatening gut problems? It's like she's losing that very first one all over again each time. If it was any of the other ones, who are different colors, was the one who was sick, it would be different. I think we have bad chocolate Society karma.

[Bhatta]

Hi Nerien, sorry for delayed post. Yes, birds may have problem of gas. Calcium is a known substance to reduce acidity. Charcoal is also known as acidity regulator. Provide them crushed cuttlebone, charcoal and egg shell (mixed together) in a separate dish constantly. Remember, charcoal will bring everything out from their gut whether it is good or bad. Therefore, provide in moderation. I provide this mix in a feeder for a week. My birds generally eat all the charcoals in the very first day leaving the egg shells and cuttlebones. Then I do not add more, leave them for remaining 6 days (then they have the calcium mainly). You may use KD powder (www.ladygouldianfinch.com) once a month to flash their gut (I personally do not use it because it may have side effects). Provide them variety of foods (veg, greens, fruits) to avoid constipation. Use of probiotic periodically (e.g, once a month) is a good practice. Best of luck.