FINCHforum

One of my youngsters, at approx 4 months of age has shown occasional signs of stargazing and twirling. This is the last of a clutch of four to be in it's heavy first molt. Nice little -smallest of the bunch- BH.white breasted.GB starting to look male (?) but that is likely irrelevant.

I have read a great deal about the proposed causes of twirling and all I've read is speculative or anecdotal. If a true cause has been identified I haven't found the article. Does anyone have a reference to some hard data on this? I mean autopsy, blood chemistry etc studies by a research lab?

As long as anecdotal is in fashion I'll add my odd thought. Could the transient twirling reported in a youngster's first molt be nothing more than an itchy head and neck?
Mine did it for a few days. Mostly at dusk. It now seems to have pretty much gone away. It looks perfectly happy otherwise.

Interesting possibility.
If I remember correctly, one of the stated probably causes involves vitamin deficiencies, which it seems would also be likely to occur when the body's resources are stretched to the max by molting.
I'm curious to hear others' opinions, and if there has been any more progress toward a definitive answer.

That is but one of a dozen or so causes proposed. All sound sort of reasonable but none have any hard evidence.

Some theories fall back on recovery while being given various treatments. Treating on speculation and ascribing 'cure' to whatever is being given at the time is hardly proof considering that it can go away on it's own.

Vet. science is now so advanced I was hoping somebody would have done a proper study.

Interesting. Good to hear your young bird is ok now. I guess this would be a good reminder to make sure our birds have "everything they need & more" when moulting.

I think it is more of a neurological disorder which may be caused by inbreeding, or breeding closely related birds. It's not really something that is curable. It's as if their nerves have deteriorated to the point that they have less control over body causing them to be off balance and twirl their head. It's really sad to witness.

It actually reminds me a lot of Parkinson's disease...

That is also one of the proposed theories. No documentation though.

In human terms it looks to me to be quite like the involuntary choreoathetoid movements of cerebral palsy. We have all seen those kids in a wheelchair doing something very like a bird's twirling. None of those neurological disorders go away on their own so I wonder.

Forgive me but what is twirling ? Can you explain and also stargazing?

Thanks.

Nicolino:
Both are descriptive terms.

Stargazing is not only looking up but tipping the head and arching the back beyond vertical as much as 30 degrees. Try pointing your nose straight up in the air to get the idea.

Twirling is like stargazing but the head is also rolled round and round.
Twirling can be mild or incapacitating. Some die but many seem to recover on their own.

Do a search for "gouldian twirling" and you will find better descriptions and a few photos.
You will also read about the many theories as to the cause. The cause is not known so accept these explanations with a grain of skepticism. They may be good guesses but are still just guesses.
There will also be numerous therapies mentioned but none are convincing.

Thank You sir for explanation .

I was under the impression that twirling was mostly fatal with a few exception as described.
Stargazing I under stood to be more when they repeatedly throw it's head up in the air as though looking at the ceiling. This behavior usually begins when a bird has been moved from a flight situation or a large cage, into a much smaller enclosure. If you place the bird back in it's original flight or cage, the behavior stops, so more a temporary thing.
Interesting thread, wish there were more studies done and better conclusions.

Of course once this topic comes up, I notice that one of my gouldian hens has started to show signs of this. I found her from someone on craigslist and about a year later discovered which breeder she came from (some of you probably remember those old threads about a guy in Florida) and knew I would never try to breed her....especially listening to everyone's horror stories dealing with his birds. Well, add my hen to the list.

Debbie:
I have seen mortality figures of 20% to 50%. Hard to be sure what to make out of these numbers as they too could be guesses. No small breeder has enough experience with the disorder to provide meaningful numbers.

Cage confinement is another 'cause' that has appeared in print. That would make twirling an adaptive behavioral disorder. Doubtful. Maybe associated but causative?? It would be worth knowing if it appears in the wild.

In all scientific thought one has to be careful not to make the jump from something associated with a phenomenon to stating that the associated factor is the cause. One sees this all the time in the press [and in books on finches} where something goes from "could" or "may" do so-and-so then is repeated often enough that the provisos are dropped and xxx DOES cause yyyy. The press is rife with this sort of BS in medical matters.
I am one of those evidence based people who was taught to look at an opined conclusion and then ask "show me the data".

I started this hoping someone had the definitive reference to twirling. Failing that it would be good if some enterprising avian vet. grad student took this research on.

interesting topic. thanks for sharing! more things to monitor. as if medications were not enough.