FINCHforum

I've posted a long history of my birds' problems on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1183107 ... 423345632/

I don't quite like facebook so I'm asking my next question here.
I have three birds: pair of goldfinches and a canary. At the moment they're two weeks into the treatment against the protozoan infection (with Baycox - prescribed by the vet) with two weeks to go.
Two of the birds - male goldfinch and the canary - aren't doing the best and don't seem to be improving. They've lost weight - I can clearly feel their chest bone "V" through the feathers.

The male goldfinch has developed this leg condition where his joints are enlarged and look very sore. He's avoiding to stand on his feet and he's sitting low on his belly, photos are better describing this:

Photos of his feet:




You can see the lump on the outside toe joint and the toes are twisted inwards because of that.
One leg is especially bad because the outside toe is curled underneath. He's keeping this leg up most of the time:


Also this red spot appeared on the bottom of his beak:


Photos of canary's feet:






You can see little sores on the bottom of her feet too. But she's using them both and perching as normal. I've been suggested to treat them for scaly leg mites by several people on facebook. But would the leg mites cause the deformities of the goldfinch feet?

I've read that when birds are infected with protozoa these parasites are robbing the birds of the nutrients. Could the goldfinch leg problems be cause by lack of nutrients? I've got some cream with aloe vera to sooth their sore legs and some vitamins to help with their skin condition, you can see those here:

I feed them mostly seed and give mashed egg with the prescribed vitamins twice a week. Their greens are mostly dandelion leaves and some broccoli - they're very picky when it comes to fruit and veg.

I couldn't catch the 3rd bird - female goldfinch - The Feathery Rocket - to take some photos of her legs but she's doing the best of all, perching normal, feet are more or less fine and looking nice and plump. She's brought the mysterious diseases into the house by the way.

I forgot to mention that the two birds each have plucked one of their thighs completely bare - they're probably itchy. I have some Ivermictin at home from their previous treatment but I'm not sure whether it's ok to treat them with it while they're on other medication. One vet I spoke to said "ok", another said "no"

Has anyone seen leg problems like that? Please share your thoughts as I really want to help my birds

I would treat for scaley mites while I looked for more answers.
Here is a page with pictures of different foot problems, might help you diagnose your birds problem.
http://ladygouldian.com/Foot-Problems
A page with mite pictures:
http://ladygouldian.com/node/228

Do you have any pedi-perches or those sand perches? Could the sores be from that because the feet are a bit tender right now?

no, I don't use the pedi-perches and never have. I've covered their favorite parts of the perches with the adhesive bandages (band-aid) to soften them up.
I know about ladygouldian website and read it all over multiple times but I can't exactly match the condition of my birds to any of those described there.

I'm wondering if I could make some sort of cast to straighten the curled toe. What material could I use? I'm really worried about this because the toe might remain in that position for good and he wont be able to use that leg properly

They due to go back on anti-protozoa meds today for two days. I'll give them two days break after that and then treat them with Ivermictin.

You mentioned you have Baycox from your vet. I'd take the goldfinch back and get medication for the foot. It can be several things and since the vet has seen them before, they would give you the best diagnosis and treatment. The foot looks like scaly foot to me. I had one finch with that a couple years ago and treated it with Ivermectin and Quick Gel.

If you can't go back to the vet, I'd treat with Ivermectin, for mites, and get Quick Gel and put that on the leg,foot, or anywhere you see the swelling/infection areas. I've used the Quick Gel on feet and beaks and the next day or in two days there is a lot of improvement.

Also, if the finch has lost weight, I'd supplement feed with electrolytes like Thrive or Vitalize or even Pedialyte as a source of water. Start with a daily administration to the beak. Be careful not to aspirate them, so only do 1cc at a time. Give homemade eggfood, millet, veggies, etc.

Sometimes, these problems are related to vitamin deficiency of some sort. So, offer a variety of foods, veggies, fruits, etc. You could even sprinkle a supplement over soft foods. Keep us posted.

I wouldn't mind taking him back to the vet but it's so stressful. Last time it took so much out of him that when back home he spent 2-3 hours sitting motionless in the cage. And now he's even weaker than he was, I'm afraid visit to the vet could kill him Last time I ask the vet several times about his red, swollen legs but she couldn't give me the diagnosis.

Is this Quick Gel some sort of cream? I googled quickly and what came up was the food supplement. Maybe I could buy online. The cream I've got from the vet supposed to help with their legs but I'm not sure if it's working or not...

I've got a tub of Guardian Angel (you can see it in the photo above) it's some kind of immune system booster for the birds. I gave it to my birds some time ago and it made them somewhat hyper and restless. I'm afraid to over supplement them which as bad as under supp.

I give mashed up egg with shell & vitamins added twice a week. The problem here is that this male goldfinch literally gorges himself with it, he eats the 3 bird portion alone, it cannot be good for him?!

Egg food is good for them.
Normally all things in moderation, but since he is loosing weight, I would give him all he want to eat. So give him egg every day.

When my zebras feet are like that, it is usually from abrasion from the dry poop on the perches. So I scrub/sand the perches to remove any dry poop that can scratch the foot.

I would put the GF in a separate cage and put a heat lamp on him. Then he can use his energy to get well, vs. trying to keep warm.

BTW, your close up pix are VERY GOOD. How do you do it? I can't hold the bird and shoot the pix at the same time.

I hold the bird in the one hand and take the picture with another with nothing fancy camera, making sure that macro setting is on.

I tried putting heat lamp in for them but the birds are terrified of it and wouldn't go near it I keep the room temperature at least at +25C instead.

They've completely lost their appetites now. Today in the morning I put some fresh seed in for them and they didn't show any interest. I managed to tempt them with some egg food but they didn't eat much of it either. I don't want to give them too much of moist foods because then they wouldn't drink the water with medicine in it.

We're seeing the vet later today. I'm afraid this journey will possibly kill him. But at this stage I rather see him dead than suffering day after day after day. It's been over a month now of him dying slowly and I have to watch it, it's unbearable

just back from the vet with the diagnosis "most likely to die". I was offered a free autopsy after his death. how comforting is that

But what was the diagnosis? Do they have a clue what he has?

I would be curious too as to what was the diagnosis? And I know this is not comforting, but I would take up the vet on the offer of a free autopsy (necropsy). A necropsy doesn't necessarily mean you will get any answers, but you may, and that may determine how you treat the remaining birds. If you decide to do the necropsy, you need to get the bird to the vet as soon as possible after it dies. If that is not possible, refrigerate but do not freeze the body. If the body is frozen, it destroys tissue and makes it impossible for a dianosis.

she couldn't diagnose. she said feet problems were most likely caused by internal illness - I kinda knew this myself because they didn't respond to Invermictin treatment a month ago.. .
What is the illness is still unclear and probably won't be until necropsy. Got some antibiotics (Baytrin) this time and came back home.
Any tips how to administer drugs orally? I tried using small pipette and then syringe but I could only got the drugs into the front part of the beak and because it's bitter birds just spit it out (I just asked this on facebook too)

Vet is important. Other birds have the potential to be affected. You want a proper diagnosis.

my finch isn't getting any better... actually he has gotten significantly worse over past two days... on top of sore legs now he has an inflamed wing joint that's oozing with pus. he's in so much pain... I'm considering taking him to the vet tomorrow to put him asleep just to end his suffering...

I would definitely get him to the vet as soon as you are able - and do take the vet up on the free necropsy offer. It will help both you and the vet to learn something - indirectly helping the vet's future clients as well.

I'm sorry you and your bird are having to go through this and hope you will find peace in some answers.

yaut
My heart is broken for you and your sweet Goldfinch. If he is suffering, I would euthanize him. I had to euthanize 2 of my finches 2 weeks ago. It is a difficult and sad thing to do, but it is more humane then letting the sweet boy suffer till his end. My vet uses a vaccine and said they go very peacefully. I am waiting for the results on a biopsy, as my whole flock was exposed to a terrible illness too. Hopefully, you will learn some new info from the necropsy that can help your other 2 birds.