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So, I just got a call back from my Avian Vet...She said that I need to wait 3 months before having birds in my home again . She also said that despite the research I did on the web...Bleach will not kill Myco-Bacterium TB . So I have to re-clean everything AGAIN in a cleaning product which contains alcohol . She said Regular Windex would do the trick (not the other kinds), and that I can combine it with water to mop the floor and walls. UGH!!! Just wanted to pass along the information to everyone...hopefully no one will ever need it.

Wow, what a chore. Thanks for the information. That is good to know about the windex.

I don't envy you. What a task!

Its a rugged organism to get rid of. UV light does kill Tb. Can you move your cages outside into direct sunlight to help ensure eradication?

Good information!
thanks for passing it along Ginene

Does it require a certain kind of alcohol? As in ethanol vs rubbing alcohol, which is isopropyl alcohol (also called IPA, iso-propanol, and more correctly 2-propanol)?

Regular windex does contain "alcohol", although their basic website does not say what kind, I'd bet it's something more like IPA, which is cheap and has no tax issues (ethanol must be taxed, or you must have gov't permits to avoid the tax if it is not denatured, & yaddayaddayadda). You can probably buy a couple of gallons of IPA or a "Denatured Alcohol" (which means ethanol plus something that makes it non-drinkable, usually poisonous) at a hardware store or Home Depot or such, for a lot less than an equal amount of Windex. These should be okay for powder-coated cages, I'd test first for painted cages.

Then get a large plastic tub, like an underbed storage tub, or a kiddie pool (probably cheaper), take the cages apart, and you can actually dunk the pieces completely in the alcohol. If it isn't deep enough in something big enough for the largest cage pieces, tip & rock the pool/container back and forth to swish it across. A few drops of dish soap can be added if you like the sudsing factor, and it also can help things penetrate cell walls/coats, etc.

Then let them dry in the sun. Then wash with water to make sure there's no residue, which you should eventually do with Windex, too.

Of course, do this outside, because of the fumes.
Excess/used alcohol should be poured back into the bottles, and disposed of properly. If there isn't that much, you could just let it evaporate in the sun, just make sure there's good ventilation around, out in the open, not inside a garage or under a porch or in a fenced in corner.

Found it. Regular Windex has water as its first ingredient, and isopropyl alcohol (IPA) as its second, then various other ingredients, bit of soap-type stuffs, stabilizers, some ammonia, color, fragrance.

I am more familiar with human Tb but would guess that the organism's resistance to disinfection if similar.

Alcohol does kill Tb. The usual recommendation is 70% alcohol with a 10 minute contact.
A difficulty with alcohol is it's rapid evaporation rate. Nerien's suggestion of some sort of immersion setup makes sense for the cages. These will be the heaviest contaminated areas.

I'd be inclined to pick up a gallon or more of denatured alcohol from a hardware store.

By the time you get done with this you will likely need some drinkable alcohol for yourself.

Thanks for all that information, Ginene and Nerien. I wondered about using Oxine, which was recommended to me for disinfection when I thought I had polyoma. The spec sheet says it is effective against microbacterium bovis (TB), but I don't know if that is the same strain you are dealing with. It is not cheap, however, but it can be administered using a mister system.

Nerien@paul-inAZ@debbie276@finchmix22
OK guys...did research on medical grade TB killing cleaners ...(OCD!!!) I ordered MadaCide FD. It is an alcohol based medical cleaner that kills TB in 6 minutes. It was $35 for 1 gallon on amazon.com, with free shipping. The medical websites only sell it by case! I feel better about using this than the Windex. I will clean the walls, floors and cages first. I will soak the non-porous feeders, water tubes, and baths in it also. I hope 1 gallon is enough . I guess I could always order another one...I'm going broke from M-TB! Anyway...I don't think October will be a good time to start up my bird room again. That would be exactly 3 months quarantine...too close for comfort . I think November starts the cold weather, so I will most likely wait until spring.

Sally
The cleaner I ordered says the same thing too. I think it would be fine...It is recommended for use in medical facilities, homes and even tattoo parlors. I found another one called Fresh Breeze TB, but it wasn't alcohol based. The Avian Vet insisted that it must be alcohol based, so I bought the MadaCide FD instead. I figure between the bleach and the alcohol, this stuff will definitely be dead ...I pray...

paul-inAZ@Nerien
This M-TB is contagious to humans...so I guess it is human TB. Is denatured alcohol known to kill TB? Maybe I can soak my feeders, water tubes and baths in it. Does it destroy plastic? It's probably cheaper than the medical cleaners too...hopefully

OMgosh I am soooo sorry... You just can't catch a break... I wish I were closer, I would be there in a minute to help you! thinking and praying for you to have strength and get through this...

Ginene:
There are a great many strains of Tb. A few are common and the rest referred to as "atypical mycobacteria". Some of them require a particular host so infection is restricted to that host in most cases.

The one infecting birds is Mycobacterium avium. 'Avium' is considered to be one of the "atypicals". As I understand it, unless the host is severely immunologically impaired the atypicals like avium are not considered contagious to humans, i.e it doesn't cause human Tb.

As a guess the various strains of Tb ought to be equally sensitive to alcohol or other disinfectants.

"Denatured Alcohol" can actually be any of many many formulations, all specified and controlled by the ATF. The purpose is to make ethanol, which is drinking alcohol, undrinkable. If you buy pure ethanol, which can be consumed, you must pay the government tax on it, unless you have special use permits. If you buy ethanol which has had something added to it which makes it undrinkable (usually poisonous), then it has been "denatured", and you don't have to pay the government tax on it. (I used to work at an alcohol/chemical company.)

Denatured Alcohol starts with ethanol, which should not hurt most plastics and surfaces, it's the same alcohol you find in Purell and things like that. Next most common ingredient in denatured alcohol is methanol, which is extremely poisonous. Next most common is isopropyl alcohol (which is rubbing alcohol), again, probably would not hurt most plastic surfaces.

Beyond these, you might be getting into trouble. If it has Acetone in it, it may very well harm plastics, painted coatings, lots of things (acetone is the main ingredient in nail polish remover). MIBK (methyl isobutyl ketone) can harm plastics, however, it is usually only present in small amounts. Then there are all other kinds of approved denaturants, tho many are more specialized and probably not in the "denatured alcohols" you commonly find in a hardware or local store. Wear gloves when using any of this stuff, it is NOT good for your skin. And don't breathe in too many fumes, whether sold as a chemical or sold in "disinfectant" form, it's not a healthy thing to inhale.

If you buy Rubbing Alcohol, which is IsoPropyl Alcohol (IPA), it will not be denatured, since it is poisonous and non-drinkable to begin with. It will be just IPA, at whatever concentration it says on the label--70% is most common, but you can also find it up at about 90%. Last time we bought some for some cleaning project, I think it was on sale for about 99 cents per pint, which makes it about $8 per gallon. If you find it at a paint or hardware store, or online, by the gallon, it should be fairly economical. And it does not harm most plastics and surfaces.

I could give you the name of the company I used to work for, they might sell you a five gallon bucket of IPA (they sell pints up to tanker truckloads), I don't know if it can be shipped UPS or FedEx, I forget (I was QA/QC/ISO/Safety/Regulatory/Whateverelsetheycameupwith) , or what that costs if they can.

Ugh! So sorry to hear this, Ginene! Not sure which is worse, the recleaning or the waaaaaaiiiiiiiiting.

paul-inAZ@Nerien
Yesl...unless we are immune compromised we should be fine, Thank God. Unfortunately, we do not know the strain of M-TB as the lesion was stored in formaldahyde after it was tested, which prevents it from being cultured. They are attempting to grow it in droppings the vet collected, but it takes 8 weeks and they may find nothing at all. So hopefully the cleaner I ordered will be perfect for the bird room. Do you think the dishwasher would kill everything on the plastic stuff or should I just soak it all in windex anyway?
@Musetta
I'm not sure what's worse...I think the worst part was knowing my birds would die and handing them over to the vet. I am just praying we never go through anything like this again...