Not air-sac mites after all? What is this?

[Javy]

Hello finchforum! I need to post again because I'm completely lost on this zebra's health now. I have treated with S76 in the drinking water for the directed two days, and taking the water away at night to ensure they are thirsty. However, even in the morning when I put the water with the med there they still didn't seem thirsty. I noticed them drink, at the most, just drops of it once or twice through the few hours it was effective. There has been no change in their health at all, they've been the same for the last few weeks. Oh, I did make sure there were no other sources of water; just seeds. On the second day I moved them over to a much bigger and more appropriate cage that had just arrived and was factory-clean. They've been there for about a week now and still completely no change.

Waxbill came from the pet-store separately from the other three (two of which have passed away and third is sick), and hasn't seen a single symptom since he came home. In fact, about a week before sickness had taken the society and he wasn't yet isolated in the hospital cage but in a cage separate from zebra and with the waxbill, the waxbill was even trying to help. He would sit with the society and seemed to really watch out for him and try to help, it was so cute! Even with that close contact, whatever it was wasn't contagious like air-sac mites because even now he hasn't seen a single symptom of anything.

Zebra is another story.

Normally he behaves like this:

- seems to pick at his feathers a fair bit with his beak, I think it's a bit too often to be preening.
- flaps his wings in place quite often, usually at the same time as picking at his feathers
- coughing or wheezing after he sings (he sings quite vigorously though, which is good).
- gets tired after flying easy, and it follows that he doesn't fly quite as much as waxbill.
- spends a lot of time under the infrared lamp to stay warm
- about twice a day or so he will sit very low on the perch under the heat lamp, puffs up, and his eyes will act strangely like just one eyelid drooping for a second, then normal, then drooping, etc. This might last five or ten minutes before he feels better again and starts singing and flying.

Then there's another thing... only twice now I've seen this happen over the last week (maybe more when I'm not watching, but can't be very often), he seems to have a sudden panic attack. During this he exhibits the first two symptoms much more prominently, seems to lose his voice completely, and fluffs up and hops around like he can't stay still. Strangely, his wings also get crooked and he moves his head around quite fast, but every time he moves it I can hear a strange sound. It's kind of like what you can hear if you crack one of your knuckles one at a time, only much deeper and kind of hollow, almost like he's moving his head too fast.

I took a video of some of his behaviour. This is just at the end of one of these "attacks" so he's not as severe and hides his symptoms while he eats, then goes back. You can't hear the cracking anymore at this point because he's not moving his head like he did anymore, and it might be hard to see the crooked wing. Note that he goes back to his normal behaviour again, including his voice coming back, after about five minutes. And I think it makes him hungry.

http://youtu.be/g2GdIHuT7Yk

[cindy]

I would forward the video and what you wrote above to Ladygouldian.com and get her take on it.

The snuggly you have hanging, my suggestion is to remove it. That could be something the birds will get caught up in and could even end up hanging upside from. They don't really need it.

[Angela&Shalamar]

the "panic attack" and "crooked wings" sound like they could be neurological in nature. I'd suggest a vet consult if possible.

[Sally]

I looked at that video, and couldn't see anything wrong. He acts to me just like mine do when they hear running water, or birds in another cage taking a bath, is he getting a bath each day? If you want, you could put some S76 in the bath water, the same dilution you would use for drinking water. I wouldn't expect him to be as active as a waxbill, many of the waxbills are extremely active, more so than most species.

[nofred]

I watched the video as well. Looks normal to me too, except that he seems to have some feathers bothering him on his back. I also agree he needs a bath every day. I have 24 Zebs in an aviary and they get excited when I get home from work and put their bath in.

[Javy]

Well, I caught the culprit in-the-act last week. Once Zebra started opening his beak to breath when he was tired I found the yellow canker on the roof of his mouth. I began treating with a 2.5x dose of Ronex (he was in pretty serious condition at this point and in a hospital cage) and reduced it to 1x on the third day. Now the last day of treatment and he is doing a whole lot better.

He's not entirely recovered though and I read that canker can't be completely cured. Has anyone else had a finch with canker and how they handled the ongoing treatment? Also, this is the last day of treatment but he's not entirely recovered yet... should I keep the treatment going a little longer or give him a break before giving him more? I've read the pages on Ronex but it doesn't say what to do at this point now.

[debbie276]

http://www.finchniche.com/features_canker.php

Treatment of choice is RonivetS (ronidazole) Ronidazole is safe to administer at up to 4 times recommended rate. In difficult situations treatment at 4 times dose for 3 days then normal dose for 4 days has been found to be effective.

[monotwine]

I would consult a vet or specialist. Canker is quite catchy and you need a professional diagnosis in order to know future steps, e.g. what Canker,suitability of acquiring more birds etc. Sorry to hear it.

[Javy]

I would love to, only there is no one in my area until October. I'm just wondering if the Ronex is safe to keep him on it longer until he's back to normal. He's shown great improvement over the last two days and I just want to see him well. I don't want to take the medicine away and then have it come back again full force, especially if it was safe to keep him on it in the first place.

[zebra zombie]

Vetafarm products work well..canker is really bad they spew the seed every where and the other birds eat it..I know the perfect cure for it but you dont want to hear it.. a zebra finch could go a very long time without water they are found in very remote desert area's..

[cindy]

You can treat again, I would also treat your flock he was with (just my opinion) since he shared food and water. I would not withhold water from your finches, especially with the heat some areas in the states has been experiencing. Aren't you in Miami? The Tampa area has been brutally hot this summer not to mention very stormy.

[Javy]

Cindy, thank you very much for the tip. I'm actually in Canada on Prince Edward Island but withholding water sounds very unsafe to me and I wouldn't want to do that. Besides, the medicine is administered through the water. Why take the water away anyway? Is it drying that kills the spread of the canker or something?

When do you think it is okay to move him back in with the rest? He seems healthy but he still stops and crouches and closes his eyes for a while from time to time. Much improved over what he was though considering his breathing has completely returned to normal. Also... since it can't be completely cured, should I be treating regularly from now on?

[cindy]

I personally have not dealt with canker. If he is still not right I would keep him in a hospital cage with a small heat lamp and have him finish out the whole dose of the Ronex...make sure it is the 12% since the 6% is not strong enough. If you do not have 12% and have 6% you can double the powder to one times the amount of water.

Which do you have the 12% extra strength or 6%?

[Javy]

The Ronex 12% extra strength. I used 5x dosage for two days and then 2x dose for five days because I was worried he wasn't going to make it. I'd say he's a good 75% better now and I think he'll recover if I keep him on it just a few more days. If he's in the big cage, there's a heat lamp on one side anyway that he go to if he feels cold, but in the hospital cage it hits mostly everywhere but is the warmest where he sleeps in his nest at night.

[finchmix22]

Treatment of choice is RonivetS (ronidazole) Ronidazole is safe to administer, especially on hatchlings and baby birds during the breeding season. The drug has no reported side effects (even in excessively high dose rates) and can be used all year round including the breeding season when birds have young in the nest. So, I would still treat the other finches with Ronex 12 % to protect them from the canker, if possible. They may seem fine now, but their symptoms may not appear until it's too late. Sorry about your other finches, who didn't make it through. Always sad to lose them when you are trying to help, but nothing is working. At least, you've got the zebra doing better!