FINCHforum

I am feelings of frustrated and discouraged!!! My brother I law called today to say another of my finches has died. We are on holidays across the country and he was watching them for me. No indications he was ill at all. He was my male that sang like a canary so Im feeling really devastated. My birds are a mix of birds I've breed myself, birds acquired from pet stores and birds I've gotten from various breeders. All my birds I've bred myself and have gotten for other breeders haven't had any problems. It's the birds that I've gotten over the last few months from pet stores that are dropping like flies. I don't know what wrong. This is the third I've lost in the last 6 months. I've had him since Jan and he was in good health when I left. Active and singing up a storm. What am I doing wrong??

My birds have access to a bulk finch seed mix, a mix of charcoal, oyster shells and grit, cuttle bone, egg shell, herb salad from lady gouldian and water at all times. The water is in a larger bath that hooks to the outside of the cage. I change it every day.

Three times a week they get greens, usually romaine lettuce and twice a week I give them sprouts (right now it's alfalfa). They also get grated egg for two days in a row and then chopped sunflower seeds the next day then repeat. I give them a 1/4 stick of millet every night before bed to. A few hrs after I give them the egg of sunflower seeds. I found if they had free acces to millet at all times they were only eating that and wouldn't eat the egg or anything else I gave them.

I line the bottom of their cages with new paper and it gets changed once a week, usually on the weekends because it's a big job to do all the cages.

I also add vitamins to their water. Not all the time but they usually get them at least once a week. I've ordered some soluvite D in case that's what's missing but I haven't put it into their diet yet.

I have no idea what's wrong. I'm so frustrated. I've tried to make the pet store birds healthy but they keep dying on me even when they look healthy.

I also worm regularly, treat with cocci care twice a year (spring and fall) and treat with S76 every few months.

What am I missing????

So sorry you are going through this while on vacation, when you feel so helpless and unable to do anything. I suspect that perhaps the reason the pet shop birds are dying but not the birds you have bred yourself or bought from other breeders is because the pet shop birds were not as healthy to begin with.

When you say you worm regularly, how often is that? And if your birds are indoors, do they need worming? And I would think every two months is too often for S76. I don't have Gouldians or canaries, which are the species most affected by ASM, but I don't treat automatically for ASM or other mites, only if I suspect the birds have them. This product doesn't prevent mites, it only treats them when present.

Sally. I just acquired the S76 so they've only had the one treatment so far. I had planned to do it on the time table that lady gouldian recommended. In all honesty I'd say my birds get wormed once a year. I live in Alberta where it's a deep freeze from almost 8 months of the year. I'll usually worm in spring just in case.

When I get new birds from the pet store or breeders I'm not familiar with I will usually worm them as part of their isolation. If they have watery droppings then I usually also treat with cocci care. It's always cleared things up and I thought they were healthy. I have three other three other pet store birds and I don't want to loose them. They are my rarer mutations.

If it is a health issue how do I go about beefing up the pet store birds so I don't loose anymore?

Just a reminder, S76 will not kill all worms especially tape worms which are common. If your looking to worm your birds you should be using a wormer, not S76 to be sure you kill them all.

good luck

Debbie I have worm away from lady gouldian.

You have my sympathies. I know the feeling, I lost all my grassfinches, a blue cap female and 2 diamond sparrows last week due to some virus.

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm feeling so frustrated and disappointed right now. I have no idea what's wrong or what I can do to fix it.

Olympic_Aiairies
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I am In Alberta as well btw, and have not had any problems with worms. In fact have not wormed my birds yet and all is well (knock on wood) My birds are pet store bought and some aquired from former owners. They are a mixture of Canary, Zebra, Society, Green Singers, Gouldian, Orange Cheeks and Cut Throat.

This has nothing to do with your losses, but I would cut back on sun flower seeds and up the fresh veggies and fruits of different varieties. I recall reading, that sun flower seeds are very high In fat, are addictive and not all that healthy. Just a suggestion.

Hope things look up in the near future.
Good luck.

So sorry for you Heidi. That is so hard when you are out of town and can't be there to access the situation! (I'm sure your bird sitters are very upset also!) I was in my local petstore recently and asked why there were no birds! I hadn't seen any the last two times I was there. I asked one of the employees there (they know me because I'm always in the store and have rescued a couple of birds for them). He said they had no birds because they found out that the breeder that supplied them had sick birds! They didn't know when they would be getting more. So you never know what you are buying. I've purchased birds from this pet store before without any problems, so I guess it was just luck that I hadn't gotten any lately.

I was curious about your statement on sunflower seeds. Has anyone ever added them to their egg mixture? I never tried it, but recently read that fresh, unsalted, chopped seeds added to chopped fresh eggs are "good" for your finches so I was considering trying it. How do you guys feel about this? Advise!

Praying your bird loses are over. Best of luck!

Aw, I'm sorry to hear this, Heidi.

I've had mixed results with pet shop birds. I've had some live very long lives, while others died relatively young.

I moved away from them once I found a trustworthy breeder (though I've been known to adopt sick/injured birds from shops where I know they won't get proper care. But those birds, I went in knowing they were sick/injured.)

Here's the deal with pet shop birds: typically, they come from one of two places.
One source is normal breeders, who typically supply the smaller, independent shops. But they're generally not the cream of the crop; those are typically reserved for private sale since they can command a higher price.
So the birds that the pet shops receive are generally the not-so-fabulous birds, the sickly birds and the adults who are no longer useful as breeders. It's typically very difficult to determine the age of pet shop birds; I've never seen an obvious juvenile; they're always fully colored out.
It could be that you're just getting birds that are weaker, older and/or less-than-desirable in a genetic sense.

The other source of birds: commercial breeding facilities. This is where larger shops like Petco and Petsmart get a majority of their birds. Though on occasion, I know they get some of the more difficult-to-find species from local breeders. (FWIW, the pet shop birds that have lived a long life have all been in the more difficult-to-find species category, including strawberries, nuns, spice and owls. In other words, not zebras or societies.)
These birds are just bred over and over until they can't breed anymore, then they're shipped off to the stores for sale.
These birds come from weary parents and there's little, if any, attention to genetic strength.

So both situations, you may end up with someone who's sickly and weak.

There's not much you can do beyond what you're already doing.
I might supplement a bit more often.
Maybe put some vitamin drops on some of their favorite foods; that way, they can opt to eat or not. (They tend to naturally gravitate toward foods with the nutrition they need.)

Do they get good daylight or are they on a regular schedule with artificial lighting? I know that a lack of light and/or an irregular artificial lighting schedule can have some fairly significant health effects, as it skews their internal body clocks, prevents a normal sleep cycle and causes stress, which has an adverse impact in a general sense.

Is there anything that could be causing continual stress?
Is their cage/aviary in a busy location?
Do you have a cat peering at them all day? Feeling predated can cause continual stress, which can have adverse health effects across the board. And you wouldn't necessarily see the same degree of unwellness in the more robust birds, since they're healthier to start with.
(I've seen this predation effect first hand in rats. Rats are naturally hunted by birds. When I had their cage in the line of sight of the birds, they would spend lots of time hiding. I put a tree between them so they couldn't see the birds and they spent significantly more time in the open! I've also seen guinea pigs who couldn't care less about birds and even made friends with the cat, so it's not problematic for every animal.)

Oh and do you have Aviclens or similar in the water to help prevent bacteria growth?
I use this as they always poop in the water and it just helps to keep it a bit cleaner than it would be otherwise.

Have you ever treated for protozoa?
I know that many birds can be fairly asymptomatic, with the weak, very old and very young primarily affected.
Ronivet S is what I use.

Do you supply drinking water other than the bath water? They should have clean water in a separate cup or water bottle. Be careful of mold on sprouts & be sure to remove the grated egg within 2 hours. I agree with Sally.

Olympic_Aiairies.....that's alot of losses

If your birds are indoors maybe your lacking vitamin d3

Soluvite d will the trick.....7 days a week

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your birds Heidi. I found one pet shop around hear that has zebra's and societies in Pittsfield, MA. I haven't been able to find any in Petco or Petsmart because those two stores said they stopped carrying them. I found this out in Ct and MA. Kinda disappointing. Hope things get better for you. Melanie G.

Turns out I now know what was wrong. My brother in law who was watching them while I was on holidays starved her to death. I started a new thread here:

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29347

He should be charged with animal cruelity!