FINCHforum

HI All,

I am new to the forum (see my intro page!), but I have always read it with attention while taking care of my zerba finches.

One of them, Ivory, had many health issues. We'll never know what the problems were, but I can tell you a summary of her recent story.

She has been always blind from 1 eye, and that eye sinked into her face. This is the main symptom we always noticed. Last week we left both the girls to a birds day care for the week end, and something happened. She kept biting her toe and we had to rush her to the emergency, where they did not do anything but medicate a bit her toe. At home, she kept biting her toe until she felt asleep in my wife's hand. The day after, we were still surprised to see her alive based on the blood amount she lost. We brought her to a specialist who made a great bandage. For 1 week everything ok, but trying to remove the bandage makes her starting again to bite what is left of that toe (not much, they told me).

We are keeping the bandage on but she keeps trying to remove it. We are giving her pain killer and antibiotic by mouth once a day. Apart that she does not drink so much (we did work on the cage to make it more comfortable for her to sit and to reach food and water), she seems fine and moves around with difficulties.

I am scared in removing the bandage, since the doctor said she would try surgery due to the foot hasn't healed in it own. I attach a picture of her...even her neck worries me, since it seems sinking in as the eye.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated, since I haven't found many discussions on leg biting. Since she has the other leg in bad conditions too (she can't pull the other) I would like to remove the bandage. With 2 toes she should be more able to move around, but I am scared the leg with the bandage will stop working too.

I know I have to go on, but I am heartbroken now. Has been two difficult weeks and my wife is my hero since she saved her the night she was keeping bleeding!

Did you examine the toe really good? Could there be something in it? Has she lost any toes? What is wrong with the other leg? Bandaging the leg isn't going to do much good, if the reason she is biting it isn't found out. Was the vet an avian vet? I would not do any surgery.

The vet was an avian vet...now I saw what's behind the bandages, and I am pretty scared. I am terrified, I cannot remove from my head that we are going to lose her soon

She lost all the three front toes, the back one was pulled forward and is blocked by the bandage. Not sure why, but the vet did make the bandage is this way, so we did replicate.

The other day my wife repalced the bandage and now it is attached to the wounded toe (or end of the leg..since there are no toes). She felt in big pain when we tried to remove it, and even using a lot of a medical moisture, we were not able to removed it from the wound. We replaced the top part of the bandage for now and closed it with medical tape to avoid her removing the bandage. She keeps trying to, and that leg and the belly are very warm. I think the infection spreaded or that she has fever, but we are keeping her under antibiotic and pain reliever. The house is very warm and we removed her from the hospital cage for now. Not sure if more warm will help, she feel a bit stressed in the hospital cage, especailly when she hears her sister.

To answer your other questions: I am not sure there is something in it...the vet did look into that and did not say anything. I wasn't at home, nor at the emergency when this happened, so I did not see the original situation.
About the other leg, she was not able to pull it. We don't know what happened, but she stopped pulling it while flying and was getting stucked in the bottom of the cage (but she was still able to perch, even if not super stable as before). It took us some time to realize that something was wrong.

biccio
Hi.
Found your post about your little girl Ivory.
I can now understand why you are worried. Poor little birdie.
How old are your two girls? I ask, because sometimes with great age one starts seeing all sorts of health issues.
Did the Vet ask your wife to bring Ivory back for a second visit? If I were you, I would take her back and ask the Vet to be very honest with you about her condition, and if he/she thinks that Ivory will get better.
As hard as it is... and I know how hard it is, sometimes we might have to consider saying goodbye to our beloved pets if they are sick and suffering and there is no hope for
improvement.
I am not saying that that is the case here, but it is something that you might have to think about.
For now, keep her warm and comfortable and keep water and food close to where she likes to sit. If her sister makes her happy, then by all means keep them together.
I am sorry for little Ivory and also for you and your wife. I know how difficult it is and how attached we become to our pets (kids)

I hope things will get better and I am sending you best wishes.

biccio --- I'm so sorry to hear this.

I have a few thoughts for you.

Firstly, I'd keep it bandaged until it's totally healed. During the healing process, the wounded area can get itchy. That can promote more biting.

I wouldn't be too worried. You can keep that foot bandaged indefinitely until you can find a solution that works for her. I've done it with other animals and a larger bird where self-mutilation was an issue.

What is your girl's diet like?
A food allergy is something that comes to mind. You see foot biting more often in mammals as a result of food allergy, but it can happen in birds.
It can result in uncontrolled itching.
So I might try introducing some new things into her diet and then graduallly eliminate everything that she's currently eating.
If she improves when she's eating all different foods, there's a good chance it's an allergy.

I'd also think about whether there's anything topical that could be causing an allergic reaction. What does she contact with that foot?

I would ask your vet about trying her on an anti-histimine medication to help with itching. If that's the problem, it should help.
You can also get anti-itch hydrocortisone spray for cats and use it on her legs. Just be sure to get the cat type, as it's lick-able. It's available online and at stores like Petco and Petsmart.

I would also inquire about whether you could try her on a medication for nerve pain/itching. Like neurontin/gabapentin (not sure if that's usable in birds, so some other equivalent).

If she has nerve damage in the leg (very possible especially now that it's been mutilated and infected) that can cause a sensation of itching or pain when there's no itchy/painful stimulus present.
Has she ever damaged that leg in the past??

Also, has she been tested for mites? Mites can cause intense itching. You usually see obvious symptoms but not always. So I might discuss performing a skin scraping to see if there are mites present and/or treating her for mites with an ivermectin-based product. (Usually applied topically to legs, so she would need to be totally healed.)

So I'd explore those three avenues. Hopefully you can find something that will work for your little girl!

Don't give up hope. I'm sure you can find a solution. It will take some trial and error. Just keep her foot bandaged if necessary (and it may not be; you may find that it's resolved when you remove it.) You can keep it bandanged indefinitely until you find a solution.

Keep us updated!
Best,
Mia Carter

Waaait a minute.
I was thinking about this a bit more and you know what?
If she's not bothering the other foot, then an allergy is unlikely. You'd typically see nibbling of both feet. So I think you can likely cross that off the list.

It also makes mites a bit less likely, as usually, you see both legs affected, but still within the realm of possibility.
So I might talk to your vet about treating her with an ivermectin-based product or similar, especially if she's had a possible exposure to parasites.

That would leave some sort of nerve-related pain/itching as the most likely candidate. And some sort of drug like neurontin/gabapentin should be effective.
I'd be interested to hear if she's had any prior injuries to that leg. Anything that could have caused nerve damage.

I'm so sorry for you and your little Ivory. I would definitely take her back to the vet and you be there so you can ask all the questions and hear his honest opinion. I have a one legged spice finch, Ziggy. Her leg was badly broken so it was removed about 2 years ago. Today she is doing very well and is VERY healthy! (bathes with the other birds and holds her own in my flight cage with other finches)!!!These little creatures are very resilient! You need to have a very honest talk with your vet as soon as possible before infection spreads. Sending prayers your way!

Jen Thank you for the help, just a question: how did you or your vet removed the leg?

They are asking for 450 to 800 dollars, but this won't be a problem if they weren't planning to make anestesia to Ivory, and they told me she might not survive that. Can't they just clip off the infected area?

I am so confused...anyway today she seems more or less as yesterday. I would have be she could not pass the night. She is still very warm..but she seems active and eats normally. Shall I spray her some cold water?

@MiaCarter Thanks for all the suggestions you sent over. We don't know what happened, but it seems that something (or another bird) cut the toes. Then she started biting her toes anyway, so the vet told us is not possible to understand what happened. The emergency vets were not avian vets, so they technically did not do anything (they medicated a bit the wound, and then give them some energy fluid and some oxygen. Now I am keeping the bandage on, but it is deeply attached to the leg, and the leg isn't healing. That is probably causing the itchy feeling, but she is more trying to set the leg free than the rest.

Not knowing what the avian vet has diagnosed or is treating for, it is impossible to say what you should do. I've had birds who have lost toes and/or entire feet, and they haven't been to the vet. The affected toes/feet simply blackened and eventually fell off, or I used cuticle nippers and cut them off myself. I don't understand the need for $450 to $800 surgery for Ivory, nor the need for anesthesia. Without knowing the injury to the toes/foot, it is impossible to know why the foot was even bandaged. I would question the vet extensively before doing any more treatment for her.

Finches can live long and productive lives without toes or even feet. I had a Blue-capped Cordon Bleu hen who lost most of one leg. Many members of this forum have one-legged birds. They adapt quite quickly and easily to their handicap, even learning to perch and do most all the normal things.

For now, I'd keep her quiet, food and water readily available, a heat lamp on her for comfort, and I'd let her sister be in with her, if it is upsetting to them to be separated. I know this is scary for you, but give her some time to heal. Keep an eye on her, but if she is eating and drinking well, that is a good sign.

Agreed with Sally.
I don't think I see the need for surgery, especially if the toes are cleanly removed (in other words, you don't have broken toes partially attached or dangling off).

I'd just let her be for now.
She's going to be fussy about the bandage. It's probably annoying her. No animal likes being bandaged, especially on a foot.

I would call your vet and inquire about how often you're supposed to do bandage changes. And also ask how long you're supposed to bandage. Bandages are tough, as they can make a warm, dark air-free environment where anaerobic bacteria flourishes. But at the same time, you don't want her walking in poo or biting it or contaminating it.

If there was bleeding, it's definitely possible for the bandage to stick to the leg. So you just dampen with a bit of saline solution (you can buy wound wash saline or just saline for contact lenses). Let it sit soaking wet for a couple minutes. Then unwrap the rest of the way.

Depending on what the vet says and what it looks like, I might try to leave it unbandaged for a bit and see how she does.
I'd expect her to bite at it when you remove the bandage. Light bleeding may also be expected, especially if you need to wet the foot to get the bandage detached from the dried blood/fluids.
But she may just bite at it for a couple minutes to get kill any itches or whatnot, then leave it alone. If that happens, I'd just keep her in a super clean cage with paper towels on the bottom (changed a few times per day), with all perches and other surfaces disinfected a few times per day.

If she started biting at the foot after the toes were amputated, then I think that's actually totally normal. It's the bird version of a mammal licking a wound. If this is what occurred, I doubt her biting at it is the problem that originally caused this. It's quite rare for animals to sever their own body parts (I've seen it once in a dog with severe anxiety, but it's very rare). It's much more likely her foot got caught up or another bird nipped her.

I would just keep her on the antibiotics. Offer a heat lamp and just try to minimize stress as much as possible. Make sure food and water are easily accessible.
I'd put a couple layers of paper towels down on the cage floor so it's easier on her foot, especially when you unbandage it.

I agree with Sally. I think it would be better if the bandage was off to let it heal naturally. Put her in with or near her sister. I question the experience & ability of your vet with small birds. Having the back toe pulled forward & bandaged is very uncomfortable for the bird. I don't know where you are located. She can do very well, if it will just heal. Birds have to deal with these things in the wild & they make it. I would be concerned about putting her under anethesia with this vet. Thnk I would try to take care of her myself or find another avian vet. Please give this bird a chance. She wants to live.

Ziggy, my one legged spice finch was adopted out to me by PetsMart after her surgery. I saw her when the leg was broken (at the hip and hanging like a tiny thread) but I was not there when it was removed. She was under PetsMart care until after it was done. She had one stitch that desolved on it's own. There was never any bleeding or any type of infection. I'm in agreement with the other responses. You need to talk to this vet yourself or take her somewhere else if you don't feel good about his treatment of Ivory. Mia is right about ANY animal not liking any type of bandage on them. They will bite, pull and scratch to get it off. It is foreign to them. Keep up the meds you have and give it a few more days to see how it heals. I would never suggest amputating that leg or foot if it just needs time to heal. I just wanted you to know how resilient these tiny creatures are and that they can still have a very happy life even if the worse were to happen to her foot. Best of luck and let us know how Ivory progresses.

Sally
Hi Sally.
It seems that Ivory's other leg is not functioning either, plus what appears to be other health issues.
I don't think surgery is the answer either, but definitely some more information is needed.
Her throat apparently is sinking inward and she's not really drinking much, plus an ongoing infection and a bandage that can't be removed because she starts bleeding...

We don't know that she has an infection. Anyway, she deserves the chance to live. I just don't trust that vet.

wildbird
Hi. I think the vet gave antibiotics, or did I read it wrong? So I just assumed that they concluded that there is some infection. I'll have to read the post again.
Of course little Ivory deserves to live as all creatures do.