Gouldian Hatchlings breathing hard .... (vid)

[Sandra]

I tried hand feeding baby gouldians that the parents wouldn't feed.

I have video of this last hatchling heavily breathing. Does anyone know what could of been? I know for sure is not air sac mites. I first started hearing like a ticking bubbly sound with his breathing. And a few days after it came to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaaV7jb8xFo

His sibling did the same thing. Toward the end, his tongue was sticking out with each breathing, which broke my heart so much.

[Sally]

It looks like the baby has probably aspirated some food. Sometimes when they do this, they will die immediately, and other times, it will take them a while. Unfortunately, if it is aspiration, there isn't much you can do. Aspiration may be the most common reason for losing handfed babies. It is very easy to aspirate these little ones--hand feeding a finch is not easy.

[Sandra]

Sally, when they aspirate food, do they make a ticking sound when they breath? He was doing the ticking sound a few days then I noticed his breathing was more.and more heavier.

[lovezebs]

Sandra
Hi.
As I was reading your post, I thought the same thing that Sally suggested. I had something similar happen to me, when the pipette I was using sort of went splat and practically drowned the poor baby. I guess the formula went into his lungs. He did not survive.

Right now I'm feeding two baby Societies with a flattened plastic tooth pick and find that I have much better control this way, especially when they are this tiny.

I am sorry about your little ones. Are there any more babies, that are still ok? How and what have you been feeding them?

~Elana~

[Sally]

Sally, when they aspirate food, do they make a ticking sound when they breath? He was doing the ticking sound a few days then I noticed his breathing was more.and more heavier.

Yes, they will make a clicking sound.

[Sandra]

Sally, lovezebs.

Someone he had candida some fungal thing going on because of the ticking sound. He must of had that ticking sound for 3 days or so. But the symptoms just kept on progressing. Where the breathing got worse and worse ....

Is hard to explain. Is there someone who can explain me difference of candida and fluid aspiration? How can I tell the difference? Is there a sign they show as soon as some fluid is aspirated?

lovezebs: no more babies! I think they going for another clutch now. We shall see .....

[debbie276]

Usually the crop does not empty and is swollen. There can also be small whitish lumps in the throat and mouth. Only if it has infected the respiratory system will you notice nasal discharge, a change in the voice and difficulty breathing.
I doubt very much it was candida and absolutely agree with Sally's assessment.

http://www.avianbiotech.com/Diseases/Candida.htm
Regurgitation, anorexia, and delayed crop emptying may be present with a candida infection of the crop. Some birds develop a swollen or bloated mucus-filled crop. White plaques may be present in the mouth if oral candida is present.

[Sandra]

Thanks everyone! debbie276, I'm new at all this! So I am learning as it goes. Aspiration makes more sense as none of the few babies I handfed ever had nasal discharges or vomit.

I'm not sure how long it would take for the crop to empty. But it eventually did empty fully by 1h30 about at 5days old. I didn't see foam in the crop either ...

My baby was all clean. Is only the ticking sound I could hear when he was close to my ear. And that ticking sound kept on getting louder as the breathing kept on getting heavier.

Thanks for the link .... I am looking at it right now ...

[Sandra]

http://www.avianbiotech.com/Diseases/Candida.htm
"Candida symptoms: Regurgitation, anorexia, and delayed crop emptying may be present with a candida infection of the crop. Some birds develop a swollen or bloated mucus-filled crop. White plaques may be present in the mouth if oral candida is present. These must be differentiated from Vitamin A deficiency, pox, and trichomoniasis (parasite). Feather problems around the crop due to irritation and beak abnormalities due to chronic infection are also very common."

This is the text from the link sent to me. My baby bird definitely didn't have ANY of those signs. As on the video I shared. Is heavy breathing, and how he opened mouth at each breathing and all progressed until he breath with his tongue sticking out and in .

This is hard to process now. Since I know its me. Is there a good link for hand feeding - aspiration and how it can happen? I obviously did something wrong that I'm not aware of.

[debbie276]

Here's a great article how to handfeed:
http://www.finchinfo.com/breeding/handfeeding.php

Handfeeding is VERY difficult, unless you are going to crop feed aspiration is just one of those things that can happen at any time. To lower the risk of aspirating you should feed slow, allowing the chick breaks in between scoops. I use a banding tool because it is very much like a spoon. Syringes have never worked for me, the flow is never steady enough and has a tenancy to splat out too quickly at times. Also be careful not to over feed the chick as the formula will back up into the mouth and it could aspirate. The first few days the crop has very little in it. Once the crop starts filling on both sides, the general rule of thumb is not to fill bigger then the chicks head.

Here's an article I found about aspirating:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5422667_aspir ... birds.html

[Sandra]

debbie276, that is great! Thanks for both links!

I'm too nervous to use crop syringes on a new hatchling .... I was using thin pointy brush and it went so well. But the little hatchlings were acting like they never seen food ... I kept on wiping their beaks so probably some fluid went through the nostril! If i'm lucky for a next time, if the parents don't feed again, I'll try the flat tooth pick. That is the best way to go to not over do and am starting to understand how the crop works so things will go better from here.

I'm definitely learning .... I guess it if was a fungal bacterial thing, I would of seen more then just the breathing right? I mean I could hear the ticking with breathing but that was it.

[Sally]

debbie276 Thanks for that link on aspiration, it was a very clear description.

Sandra Don't beat yourself up. I have hand fed many babies, and I have aspirated my share of them. Hand feeding finches is very difficult, they are just so tiny that it is difficult to get small amounts into them. I can't use a syringe for at least the first week, they are simply too large for my tiny waxbills. A flat toothpick works well, and I also use a banding tool. Letting the baby lick the food off the banding tool helps in preventing aspiration (same for the toothpick).

[Sandra]

If I'm blessed again to take care of hatchlings .... the flat toothpick will be my next try. I have a few plastic small banding tool that I will try too. If they inhale food ...... do you hear like a ticking bubbly sound when you hold them close to your ear?

My baby did exactly this: "Symptoms: When a baby bird inhales food or liquid, it will sputter, shaking its head while desperately trying to get some air." Read more http://www.ehow.com/about_5422667_aspir ... birds.html

I know this is off topic but what is the rule for starting to feed hatchling? I know there is something with the yolk and it having to pass through before feeding. But how does that work and how long should it take to go? Am asking because my babies still had yolk after 2nd day. So wondering how long they can go before being dehydrated and without food and the dangers of yolk being in baby for too long?

[debbie276]

Some of my pairs feed the chick right away and others wait till the next morning. I wouldn't wait more then 24 hours myself, I usually start by the end of day one (they mostly hatch in the early morning) if I need to handfeed.

[isloocanary]

Hi Guys,

pls see below one of gould chicks being raised by Bengalese, this chick's crop is abnormally swollen . Any advice to save this chick would be highly appreciated.