Zeb lethargic, possible diarrhea, should I be worried?

[Kuromi]

Just when I think things are starting to look up and everybody is getting along after the death of my 6th zebra finch, now one has me worried again.

My CFW finch Ice King has been sleeping a lot more than he used to. He mostly stays in the basket nest, even when his 2 mates leave. When I approach the cage, the rest of them still all fly away to another area and watch me, whereas Ice King will continue to sit in his nest and open and close his eyes. He still gets up to eat and drink, makes some beeps, but have heard no singing from him for awhile and not a whole lot of noise. I'm not sure if he has diarrhea or not, but he seems to be using the bathroom a lot (more than the others) and it's very runny... more like a big squirt than a dropping. His vent area also seems somewhat wet and red, while the others are all fluffy and no wetness/redness. He has also been puffed/fluffed up. He seems like he's been breathing a bit hard as well, as I can see him bobbing slightly when he breathes. He doesn't breathe with his beak open, but I did notice when I first got him (before any of these other signs started) that he does breathe with his beak open when they are stressed and flying around a lot when I would try to remove them from the cage or clean things.

His 2 mates still sleep in the same nest with him, will still act normally around him, and all of the rest seem healthy and showing no signs of illness (all singing, look normal, behaving as usual).

The only thing that I have changed before this started was adding a vitamin supplement to their water. Could this be causing issues with Ice King, or should I be worried about something more serious?

[Kuromi]

Something else that I forgot to mention: when he goes to the bathroom, he bobs his butt as though trying to get it out/get everything off. Have not noticed the others doing this.

Also, he has often been sleeping with his head tucked over his wing. I've noticed one of his mates doing this as well, when in the nest with him.

[dutch]

Kuromi...doesn't sound good

can you post some pics

[Kuromi]

I can't get photos of his behind by myself. He looks normal aside from that. I got him out and looked at it more though; it was very red and sore looking with some feathers missing above it. The eliminations he's been doing look like just clear liquid.

I put him in the small travel cage by himself for now. It's not very big and I imagine he won't enjoy it much, but it's the only other cage I have.

[MiaCarter]

Agreed with Dutch. That doesn't sound good.
Sounds like he's definitely got some digestive issues.

It's really tough to diagnose a problem without seeing the droppings.

But here's a great poopology page with good photos:
http://www.mfgouldianfinches.com/Poopol ... gyPg1.html

In a new bird from a pet store, I always worry about worms and/or protozoal infections.

I always de-worm with an avian dewormer and treat for protozoa with Ronex. I do this in all new birds, even those from a trusted source as you really never know.

A yeast infection is also a concern.

Yeast and protozoa are very much opportunistic types of ailments. A robust, healthy bird may not show real obvious symptoms, whereas a weaker bird will be more severely affected and they'll act sick.
Stressors like a new home and new roommates are two very major stressors that could result in illness.

Ronex and dewormer aside, I'd get some avian probiotics. I would also make a homemade electrolyte solution or Pedialyte (unflavored), as that diarrhea is going to be sapping his electrolytes and dehydrating him.
I have a recipe here for homemade solution if you need it:
http://wp.me/p4JWrl-F

[Kuromi]

Looking at photos of the poop and then looking at his droppings... they look fairly normal? If anything maybe a very slight green tint, but they do have green colored seeds in their mix.

He's also been very active since I put him in the travel cage by himself. He's alert, not puffed, keeps moving around from the perch to the swing and bottom of the cage, beeping at the other finches.

I've not seen any signs of worms. I am really hoping that's not the case as I have a debilitating phobia of intestinal worms and was under the impression that it's rare for finches to get them.

I'm going to call Petsmart as soon as they open and see if they will make an exception for returning any of the finches past the return period of 2 weeks (I'm passed it by a few days). If not, I'll be surrendering the CFW so he can receive vet care as I can't afford it.

I'm going to be re-homing the rest of them and all of their supplies. I am thoroughly discouraged from owning birds and what was meant to help my anxiety has only caused even more. I just want them to have a good life, and it's seeming way too stressful for me to provide that.

[Kuromi]

Also thank you so much for the links. If he starts looking lethargic or showing bad signs again before Petsmart opens I will try the electrolyte solution. I gave him plain water without vitamins in the travel cage as well, just in case that was causing or worsening the issue(s).

[lovezebs]

Kuromi
My friend.
Don't give up on your birds so quickly. You were happy with Marshall and Gumball, right?

Why not rehome the others (because I think bringing them in, is what created the stress) and think about hanging on to your original two, and just enjoying them?

Just because some of us crazy finchaholics feel the need to always get more, doesn't mean that you or anyone else needs to get more.

Not really trying to tell you what to do. I mean it is your decision of course. This is just something to think about before you and your Zebbies part company.

Best wishes.

~Elana~

[dutch]

Kuromi....what is the name of the vitamin supplement you are using?

[Kuromi]

lovezebs At the time I didn't realize how high maintenance they were. I did do a lot of research beforehand, but I suppose not enough. I just don't know that I can handle that even if I were to go back to just having Marshal and Gumball, it is still a lot to keep up with and has become more expensive than I had anticipated. I would miss them greatly but, realistically I don't know if I am cut out for this.

dutch This is the vitamin supplement that I am using

[lovezebs]

Kuromi
Well, as mentioned before, it is ultimately your decision. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do, and best of wishes for the Holiday season and in the up coming New Year.

~Elana~

[cindy]

I suggest that you take a look at this article http://www.finchniche.com/features_canker.php

"Signs of Canker/Cochlosoma include: diarrhea, yellowish or bright green droppings, undigested seed in droppings, butt pumping, wet vent feathers, sleeping during the day, head tucked over their wing feather, weight or feather loss"

I would consider calling ladygouldian.com or ladygouldianfinch.com and seeking there advice as far as the correct medications... I personally treat all new birds when they arrive with a round of Ronex 12%.... first 3 days a mix of 2 times the powder to 1 part water, the 4th through the 7th day they are pack to the normal dosage prescribed on the bottle. I would not wait to long, finches can dehydrate, loose weight, go light very quickly. Add a heat lamp for warm, make it about 85 degrees in the area the bird is sitting in. provide water where he can get to it. Definitely make a call in the morning to one of the two sites and order in some medication.

[Sally]

Going back over your posts, it seems that you didn't have any problems until you increased your flock. Perhaps if you rehome all but Gumball and Marshall, you will find that peace will return. Also, your expenses will be less, cleaning will be easier, and there will be less stress.

Your finches are supposed to be fun, and when they aren't, it is time to reassess. There certainly is no shame in giving up on the hobby, it is not for everyone. Only you can determine what is your best choice. Whatever you choose, we all understand and sympathize.

[MiaCarter]

Great thoughts from cindy and Sally also makes a lovely point about the fact that pets are supposed to be enjoyable, not a source of stress or anxiety (well, they are the source of stress and anxiety at times, but those cases are relatively few and far between and greatly outweighed by the joys.)

I firmly believe that it often takes more love to let your pet go, knowing that someone else can provide a better home. That takes a lot of love and bravery.
I've seen many cases where individuals kept pets that weren't right for them or their lifestyle and nobody won. The owner was sad because they knew the animal wasn't getting what it deserved and the animal suffered too.

But that said, I'd hate to see you discouraged from keeping pets that could be enjoyable for you.

For what it's worth, finches generally aren't so high maintenance. You've encountered a couple issues back to back, but generally, behavioral issues are uncommon once you have a stable flock. And illnesses are relatively rare, with most easily treated with a small supply of medicines. (Really, you primarily need a broad spectrum antibiotic like Amoxitex, Ronex, dewormer and an anti-mite med like S76.) A vast majority of issues can be handled with this handful of meds.

Ultimately, you know what's best for you. I just encourage you to think through any decisions and don't act in haste as that can often lead to regret.

[Kuromi]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I decided to return Ice King (the sick finch) to Petsmart so he could get the vet care he needed. I then took the others to a different pet store that has been out of male zebs for awhile, so I imagine that they will find new homes quickly. I lost out on some money, but my only concern is that they go to good homes quickly.

I just don't think that bird-owning is for me, or at least not right now. I really appreciate everyone's advice and help through my short venture in the hobby, and I can't thank you all enough.

I've had to re-home animals before due to them being more than I could handle (sugar gliders that I owned for 3+ years), and it's always difficult, but I need to think of my health. I do own a rabbit as well as a couple of hamsters though, so I will still have some furry friends to keep me company! For right now, I know my limits and I just need low maintenance mammals to care for at this time.