Baby finch sickness concern! Please PLEASE help!!!

[Pikori]

Hello! I am new to this forum, and I signed up to get some advice.

I have 2 society finches, one I've had for a year, the other I've had for about half a year.
The one who came later is male,( the other one is female) and I let them breed. This was my first time having birds so I was really new to it all. It also might have been their first time too.
I ended up with one baby society out of 5 eggs, and I was really excited. After the baby had come out of the nest, he lived normally with his parents for about a week and a half. I then started noticing his drooped wings, his puffed up feathers (Im not sure whether he was male or female) and his body becoming extremely weak. He slept all day, and would always try to cuddle with the parents. They wouldn't help him, and would often fly away when he tried to follow them.

He would have trouble pooping and his vent would get clogged. We tried to give him extra nutrients with baby formula, but he only got worse. We tried to bring him to the sunlight often too. Right before his death, he twisted and cringed his body in all sorts of ways, then died in my hands.

Before he was born, I installed some branches in the cage from outside that we cut from our tree a year before. I caught the baby chewing on the branches, so I thought that was the cause of his death (assuming there were parasites or bacteria).

But I recently got a new clutch, (letting the parents breed again) with 3 out of 5 surviving this time. Though I took out the branches, not wanting the same thing to happen, one of my babies got sick with the same symptoms as the baby who died. He would always cuddle with the same sibling and now that sibling seems to be getting sick too. I tried to feed them bee pollen with milk (along with a small amount of bee propolis) , as I heard that would give them extra nutrients, but the results are no different. We can't get to a vet either, so we try all sorts of remedies at home.

So my question is what is the cause for this sickness, and is it because of digestive problems or bacterial infections? Why do the parents seem to be unaffected?

And if you have a solution or any way I can prevent this, please let me know as soon as possible! I don't want to lose my finches!

[cindy]

Sorry you are having these issues... the droppings that clogged the vent were they white?
when the bird was able to pass what the droppings more white than colored.

If possible can you get a picture of the droppings from the surviving babies, put white paper towels under the birds, take a close up clear picture of the droppings.

Also I am going to ask if on the remaining babies, the sickest one can you dampen the feathers on the belly and push the feathers to the side and away from the belly as pictured below, take a picture as clear as possible and post it here. There are things in the belly and in the droppings that can give us a clue to what is wrong. Could be protozoa and or yeast.

Medications... what do you have on hand. Do you have Ronex 12%?

BRanches brought in from outside should be scrubbed in soap and water, rinsed well and then soaked in bleach and water for 15 to 30 minutes then rinsed well and sun dried.

[cindy]

Birds can not digest lactose, avoid the milk

[Derk]

Sorry for your loss. Please do as Cindy suggests, she is very experienced.

[Colt]

It sounds to me almost like the parents are weaning the chicks too soon. Are the chicks eating on their own when they are getting sick? You mention them flying to their parents and the parents moving away. That's pretty unusual for Societies. Are you seeing begging behavior out of the nest and the parents ignoring the fledglings?

It's also possible they are sick, but that was just my first thought (and easiest fix)...

[MiaCarter]

Oh no!
I'm so sorry to hear about your little one.

Agreed with Cindy that the droppings and belly photo will help diagnose any issues in that area.

As Colt mentioned, it is possible that the parents simply weaned too soon. That does happen on occasion. A bit unusual for societies in particular, but possible nevertheless.

Did the dirty vent start before you tried giving formula? (There are some bird formulas available and you can also make your own. Bird formulas are non-milk based.)

[Pikori]

Unfortunately, I lost a baby yesterday, and 2 are surviving. I took a sample of all of their feces the day before, and one of the babies surviving has red/brownish poop. I look up websites to see what these meant:

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_poopology.php

I also cleaned the branches with soap and water before I installed them, and thinking they were the cause, I soaked them in vinegar and water, then sun dried them for a few hours. I ended up taking them out before the current clutch I have now.

I do not have any medication on hand because they are not accessible. I also do not know what kind of medicine to get because I'm not sure what my bird has.

Here are the pictures:

[img]/Users/me/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library.photolibrary/Previews/2015/06/02/20150602-161636/3if80TSUTBOc7CPfsCx9SA/P1030093.jpg[/img]

[img]/Users/me/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library.photolibrary/Masters/2015/06/02/20150602-161644/P1030097.JPG[/img]

[Pikori]

The first baby I had in the first clutch would try to eat on his own, but couldn't. He was sick when he tried to eat seeds. He was about 3 weeks old. Both of the surviving babies I have now are about a month old. The one that is healthy can kind of eat on his own, the other one is trying too, but isn't successful.

Their diet is a seed mix (which I know isn't the best). But my first clutch, I gave the parents egg food almost everyday. This clutch, I haven't given them egg food, but seeds and vegetables and fruits about once a week.

The parents are still feeding them often, but are sometimes distracted or they eat their seeds so fast, that they don't have enough food to feed the babies while Im not at home to refill. When I put a new batch of vegetables or fruits in though, they fill themselves up and go to the babies and feed them. The feeding I think is ok, but they just don't spend time with them. Just feed, then fly away when the sick ones come to cuddle with them.

[Sally]

So sorry to hear about your losses. It does sound like the parents aren't feeding the babies properly. Egg food is one of the best things you can offer parents for feeding to the babies, as it supplies the protein they really need in order to grow. Is there a reason you didn't offer egg food with this clutch? Veggies are good if they are the proper veggies, but most finches don't eat much fruit.

Your photos are not showing up. You can read the topics here in the New Users Start Here! section of the forum, which explains how to post and how to add photos to a post.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewforum.php?f=81

Welcome to the forum, even though it is not under the best of circumstances. There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on diet and breeding. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.

[Pikori]

I have gotten busy recently so Im not preventing them from eating egg food for any special reason.

I have also gone on http://www.finchinfo.com many times. I use it a lot to get information on my birds, but unfortunately, I'm an inexperienced owner, so Im still having trouble with their care.

Here are the pictures, I hope they show up:

[cindy]

Showed this to a friend that can help, she said it looks bacterial. What antibiotics do you have on hand?

[wildbird]

I think the baby birds are starving. You need to provide seed for them at all times and other foods too. They should NEVER be out of food or water.

[cindy]

Fruit is just mostly roughage and sugar, it is also high in water... Eggfood is protein and babies need that protein to grow... the white messy vents, slimy droppings are a sign of infection... often when the bird has an infection/bacteria yeast tends to also take hold.

When a bird is ill and has something internal going on like an infection and yeast, protozoa the birds may eat but not get the nutrition from the foods they are taking in... Also the parent birds can sense the babies are ill and will not waste time feeding sick babies.

you do need to leave extra seed and dried eggfood down for them all the time.... they also need clean water. Dirty water will allow bacteria and protozoa to grow and that can make your birds ill... try adding extra cups or water tubes .... a seed hopper or extra bowls of food... skip the fruit... mix chopped kale, shaved broccoli, finely grated carrots to boiled grated egg food or dried egg food. Leaving soft foods down to long can cause them to go rancid, grow fungus so change the soft foods out often... dried eggfoods like Higgins ProTeen 25 is great to use if you can't do fresh egg.

Do you have any antibiotic available... If you do not I can find out the best one for you to order.

[Sheather]

That baby looks extremely underweight, expected if they're not being properly fed, either by the parents or by what you're providing.

You can't breed finches without providing protein. End of story. If you can't do that, don't be breeding, please. Seed alone is barely - barely - good enough by itself to keep adults alive. Babies need a lot more. Finches can starve to death in 12 hours without food and babies in half that, you need to put out more than enough food to cover however long you're gone, always, no excuses. Put out several days worth at a time if you have to. There is no excuse to let food run out, finches are not like dogs and cats, able to get by with meals. By nature they need to nibble all day long to properly feed themselves and their young.

You need to be providing egg every day ideally from the time of incubation up until the chicks have been weaned at least a week or ten days. It's truly vital.

[Pikori]

Thank you for your advice. Its has helped me know what to do when breeding. I do not have any antibiotics on hand since I have only recently learned a lot about them. The bird in the picture died today, so I was sure that some infection was included to the poor diet. The remaining baby looks quite healthy, but I will keep all of this information on hand, just in case.

I actually am out for the summer, so I started feeding them egged yesterday. Looks like I was too late though. Thank you again for what you have told me and Ill try to find more information on health and especially breeding.