Arnie the Fire Finch Needs Help ...

[7936tj]

The story of Arnie the young Fire Finch is a long complicated one ...

We purchased from a supposed "breeder" in the North Island of New Zealand, Arnie & his mate Snoopy as friends for our lonely male Fire Finch called The Baron. Arnie & Snoopy were meant to be a lot older than what they arrived as. So young, small & scared & we were really really worried for them, but quarantined them for safety's sake being new birds & all.

After which, they were introduced to our outdoor aviary & their new friends. The Baron wasn't overly pleased to start with, but got over himself soon enough. Soon after, both of our new young boys started to go downhill, sitting puffed up together, being active but not overly, eating & drinking but mainly puffed up & together. Then feathers started to come out around their heads, Arnie being the worst of the two. So we sought advice & medicated them with Moxidectin as we were pretty positive they now were showing symptoms of air sac mites - even though they weren't clicking etc, they couldn't cheep & one of our Cordon's who can sing like Pavarotti, all of a sudden was having trouble cheeping as well. The whole aviary was medicated, Cheese the Cordon now sings again & for the first time since we've had them, Arnie & Snoopy now cheep!

Downside? The feather loss is continuing & now Arnie has missing feathers on the top edge of his wings & it looks white & chalky where the feathers should be.

What on earth could it be??? There can't be any mites left as the Moxidectin is supposed to be an internal/external medication for mites etc. None of the other aviary birds have the feather loss except for Snoopy, but he's not as bad.

Now both Snoopy & Arnie are very active, but also super grumpy & the poor Baron has been getting chased around & attacked over the past couple of days. Poor wee man looks like he's got idea why they're so cross.

Is it possible that being so young, super stressed, then sick & now better that our two baby Fire Finches are going through an extreme moult of some sort? What is the white chalky stuff on Arnie wings? Will his feathers grow back? These poor wee guys have been through it all & we just want to get them well.

The aviary gets a dish daily of fresh food containing germinated seed, well boiled egg & shell, diced veg & fruit as well as a lettuce mix (not iceberg). As well as the normal fresh water & seed/millet. They are very pampered *lol*.

I would love anyone's advice on what to do for Arnie & Snoopy.

[wildbird]

My first thought of the chaulky white substance would be some kind of mite. Do their legs or toes show any signs of this? The symptoms don't sound like that of airsac mites.

[lovezebs]

7936tj

Are they bathing?

This does not look like any kind of molt that I have ever seen. That white powdey stuff is just so strange. Is it just on the feathers, or on the skin as well? Is there something on the ground that they could be rolling in?

If I were you, I would pull them out of the aviary, until you can sort out what on earth this might be. You wouldn't want the rest of your birds coming down with this, whatever it might be.

I really hope someone will pop up with some ideas as to what this is, and how to get rid of it.

Good luck.

[7936tj]

They have been properly medicated internally & externally for mites. Their legs & toes are fine, no signs of anything abnormal on their feet. Just on the edge of his wings. It's on his skin, not feathers & just in that one place. It's such a mystery

[7936tj]

Oh & despite a bath being given on warm days, they will not bathe

[debbie276]

Moxidectin only stays active in their blood stream for 21 days. If you have external mites, feather mites or scaley mites, if you don't spray and kill them in the environment moxi will not stop them when the dose expires. You may want to get a good mite spray and be sure to cover all the little nooks and crannies of your aviary, especially any nests. Other then that I can't say I've ever seen wing tips like that.
You might want to email that picture and description to Laraine and Kristen at ladygouldian.com and see if they can recommend something.
good luck, please keep us posted

[7936tj]

Hi Debbie

Thanks so much for your advice, I will do all of your suggestions. Anything to help this wee guy.

Because of how our aviary is set up, to catch & medicate directly on the back of the neck is not really appropriate, & way too stressful for the birds as well as us, so we sprayed the birds top to bottom as well as the entire aviary with the Moxidectin & put it in their drinking water & bath water. We were thinking of redosing at the weekend when the weather is meant to be good & sunny & will definitely do that now. Thankfully no nests to deal with in the outdoor aviary, so one less stress there

I'll go email the ladies at ladygouldian.com now & see if they might have any clues as to the chalky wing tips

[Sally]

7936tj Do you have access to Vetafarm products in New Zealand (they are from Australia)? Vetafarm makes a really good mite/insect spray called Avian Insect Liquidator that is safe to spray directly on birds, even babies, yet will knock out lots of the pests we find around aviaries.

[7936tj]

Hi Sally - thanks so much for the great tip. I will ring around and see if its possible to get it here. We struggle to get a lot of good products, so fingers crossed

[lovezebs]

7936tj

How is Arnie doing?

[7936tj]

Hi Elana

Arnie & his buddy Snoopy are now in a hospital cage inside.

Snoopy is the healthier of the two with nowhere near so many problems.

Arnie on the other hand still has a faint click, missing feathers & now a funny looking leg. After more research, we feel Arnie still has leftover airsac mites and perhaps scaly mites are responsible for the condition of his leg and wing tips.

Here in NZ we don't have access to the medicines that everyone else about the world seems to be able to get. We have however gotten our hands on Moxidectin from a supplier up north. We dosed the entire aviary a while back and it definitely helped the two wee birds a bit as well as making sure no one else in there got sick.

Now that they are easily catchable, Arnie and Snoopy have been redosed with the Moxidectin straight onto the back of their necks and in their drinking water and we redose in 10 days time from first day of treatment. The outdoor aviary will be dosed this coming weekend as the weather is meant to be warm and we can spray out the whole aviary and get it nice and dry for them to be in.

Overall, Arnie and Snoopy are relatively perky, now chirping (they couldn't before), eating and drinking well and hopping/flying around their hospital cage really well. I think its going to be a LONG time before they go back outside. I want to see definite improvement and feather growth before I even consider it.

Fingers crossed it all goes according to plan, I hate seeing them looking so ragged and unwell

xxx

[lovezebs]

7936tj

Poor little guys, hope they improve soon.

I'm hoping my little sick Star feels better soon too.

I know what you mean about hating to see them sick

[7936tj]

Hi Elana

Thanks so much. Hope your wee one feels better soon too. With the way our aviary is set up, to catch the birds is quite difficult and I was shocked how much the two of them had gone down hill. I feel so bad as a finch parent I didn't know/see what was happening even though I look at them each day

xxx

[cindy]

With topical moxidectin or Scatt our avian vet said that they are finding more recurring infestations with just the one time treatment...to break the cycle you need to do a total of 3 doses (a dose is 1 drop to the bare skin on the back of the neck) each dose 14 days apart. (confirmed by three other avian vets as well) Spraying the area with AIL is also recommended. Glad you are re-dosing the moxidectin 10 days after the firs dose... hope it helps.

these articles may help, on various skin and feather ailments

http://avianmedicine.net/content/upload ... gument.pdf

http://beautyofbirds.com/featherdisorders.html

the article mentions "This may be due to secondary staphylococcal or mycotic infection" after a mite infestation

I would use caution spraying the bird if the skin is raw or it has sores. If he was plucked by birds that were chasing him, he may be a bit sensitive in those areas.

[7936tj]

Thank you so much for your wonderful advice, I appreciate it so much. And you have confirmed what my husband and I have been thinking ... that we need to dose more than once to get this under control.

I am thrilled to report that Snoopy is now trying to sing! For a wee man who couldn't even cheep a wee while ago, this is a very exciting milestone.

Arnie now cheeps occasionally but lets Snoopy do most of the talking right now. Both birds seem perkier and with the good weather we've been having, have been able to pop them in the sun to sunbathe each afternoon for a wee while. They just love their sun time.

A question ... Arnie and Snoopy have always been best buds (they do EVERYTHING together). Its pretty obvious to me that Snoopy is going to be well much faster than Arnie. I am worried that when Snoopy is better, to separate them could make Arnie pine and hinder his progress. Is it ok to leave them together until both birds are recovered? We're thinking at this point they are going to be indoors until at least Christmas - we want them fighting fit before they go back to their outdoor friends.

xxx