I think Cooper has Twirling :(

[finchlover24]

I woke up this morning and I was getting ready.. she started rolling around, head twitching, couldn't perch on anything. This happened for a minute or two. I have no idea what happened, she was just fine one minute and twitching and rolling the next. I mean literally rolling on the floor, head twitching back and forth, and couldn't even get up. I can't stop crying. What's wrong with her? Is she going to die?

@cindy lovezebs lnlovesorange Sally Derk MiaCarter

[cindy]

Did you examine her for head trauma, keep in mind sometimes you can not see physical signs of it. The fact she could not get up makes me think she possibly collided with something.

Add a heat lamp to one side of the cage and watch her closely if you can. Document if she has another episode and what happens during it and let us know... better yet if you can get a video of it as it happens and post it. A video will give us a better idea of what is going on.

I know it is very heartbreaking and scary to see this happen but try to stay calm and document/film what you can if she has another bout of it. Very sorry she is experiencing this.

[finchlover24]

cindy I didn't get a chance to do much since I had to leave for class. I made sure that her water bowl was low so she didn't fall in there and get hurt. I removed all toys so she wouldn't run into them. I have my mom at home who is watching her and she'll let me know if anything happens again.

I was meaning to grab for the camera when it happened but I froze, panicked, and started crying. I was so afraid of her dying.

It started like this:

She was hiding under her mirror for some reason. She came out (could've hit her head before that?) and perched on the cup near her. Her head started twitching, like she was looking to the side but repeatedly. Then, out of nowhere, she falls onto the floor (almost like her legs went limp) and starts rolling while twitching. Not sure if she hit her head before perching on the cup or while behind the mirror. She did this for a minute and then stopped. It took a few minutes for her to regain balance to perch on things but now she seems okay. I will definitely try to get a video if it happens again.

[lovezebs]

finchlover24

I wish I could give you a comforting answer honey, but I honestly don't know what's going on with Cooper.
It sounds like some sort of a seizure, from what you describe, which makes me think of some sort of a neurological problem.
However, for all I know she might have had something stuck on her head or back, which she was trying to rub off.....

I really have no idea. I'm so sorry you've had such a traumatic morning.

[cindy]

cindy I didn't get a chance to do much since I had to leave for class. I made sure that her water bowl was low so she didn't fall in there and get hurt. I removed all toys so she wouldn't run into them. I have my mom at home who is watching her and she'll let me know if anything happens again.

I was meaning to grab for the camera when it happened but I froze, panicked, and started crying. I was so afraid of her dying.

It started like this:

She was hiding under her mirror for some reason. She came out (could've hit her head before that?) and perched on the cup near her. Her head started twitching, like she was looking to the side but repeatedly. Then, out of nowhere, she falls onto the floor (almost like her legs went limp) and starts rolling while twitching. Not sure if she hit her head before perching on the cup or while behind the mirror. She did this for a minute and then stopped. It took a few minutes for her to regain balance to perch on things but now she seems okay. I will definitely try to get a video if it happens again.

That must have be scary to see.

Sound like either a seizure or head trauma from what you described. Was she making any sounds as this happened?

Can I ask what you are feeding her, does she get pellets, vitamins and minerals. Vitamin A and Calcium D3 deficiency can cause seizures.

there is a description of types of seizures and causes on this page... they can have seizures due to head trauma, viruses, infection. http://beautyofbirds.com/seizures.html

cushion the floor of her cage by taking a small stack of newspaper or soft towel folded and cover/wrap it in white paper toweling, it will cushion her if she falls again so she will not injure her self further. For now keep the perches low, food close to the floor. Comforting foods like boiled grated egg to give her additional vitamins and minerals and strength.

[finchlover24]

cindy lovezebs It was horrifying to watch. She didn't make any noises (from what I could hear between me crying and my brother freaking out). I didn't see any signs of head trauma and she seems fine as of this moment. She can perch, eat, etc just fine. I'm watching her at all times because I'm scared of this happening when I'm not looking.

I doubt it was something stuck to her that she was trying to get off (but that would be such a relief) since I don't think she'd be rolling on the floor uncontrollably. She couldn't even get up until it was over. She was rolling into walls, the mirror, and her food bowl.

She has spray millet, clean water every night, and regular finch food. I added some Finch Mix and Miracle Meal from LadyGouldianFinch to her diet last night.

Her cage is always lined with a thick and plushy towel at the bottom, and it has paper towel on top for the poop. I always hated the grid at the bottom and I never let them stand on it, I'm always afraid of a toe getting caught or something.

I read the link you sent me.. I doubt it's heavy metal poisoning.. no obvious dehydration unless she has something internal going on...

Stress: Some birds (particularly budgies) are susceptible to "stress seizures" - also referred to as " cardiac racing syndrome" - and most of the time, they will come right out of it once they calm down. "

I have no idea what could be causing her stress.. unless Meepin did something and scared her?

"Vitamin A DeficiencyCalcium / Vitamin D Deficiency: African Greys are known to be susceptible to Calcium deficiency, which leads to seizures and/or leg paralysis, sudden collapse or fainting."

This one seems to fit.. Cooper had something more like a seizure with leg paralysis than actual fainting...Meepin had an episode where he fainted when he was around this age too... Where would I get vitamin A and calcium? Can we give finches cuttlebone?

She's been having NV powder in her water for the past week or so since we were afraid that Meepin had something.. so I'm not sure about the vitamin deficiency but who knows.

I don't use hairspray, perfumes, or anything in my room that could harm them from the list online. I have no idea whats wrong with her but I hope this was isolated and never happens again

[finchlover24]

cindy lovezebs

Before it started, she was like this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8mSmt ... 46-h969-no

She got out, perched, and it happened.

Here's a picture of her while I was playing with her and trying to get a look at her head:



I'm looking at videos online... it didn't look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxpBOFA9miM

not this either..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tdpc_9mjO8

Laraine suggested that it was twirling and genetic, but would Meepin have it too?

I hope it never happens again, but if it does, then I'll try to get a video. :/ Thank you guys so much for helping.

[Arama]

finchlover24

I have no help in the medical reguards but would like to offer you some support and giant hug vibes. Im really sorry shes not doing so well.

[cindy]

I can't open the very first video... in the article I referred to above it describes what a seizure would look like, does any of that fit the description?

[cindy]

as far as vitamins and minerals try AviTech Avivita Gold by AviTech...glamgouldians.com carries it... it is very complete and contains calcium and D3.

Cuttlebone does not contain D3...also freshly boiled grated egg with a bit of peeled finely grated carrot will help as well. Egg is pretty complete. You can take the shell off the egg and grind it real fine or powder it and add it to the egg food or sprinkle it over chopped veggies or set it in a small dish for her to go to as needed.

[finchlover24]

cindy Ah, probably something with the video's privacy settings.

Based on the article...

Symptoms:

Seizures may be mild to severe, partial or generalized, frequent or infrequent; and may involve twitching, paddling or convulsing. -- Yes to twitching.

A bird may present a sudden, temporary loss of consciousness and control of motor function. -- Yes to loss of motor function, not sure of consciousness.

It may appear disoriented and unable to perch. -- Yes, she was rolling on the floor and unable to get up on her own.

During a seizure, a bird may vocalize, lose consciousness, fall off its perch, flap its wings uncontrollably and stiffen its body. -- No vocalization that I could hear, she did fall off her perch, no flapping of wings, but stiffening of body (it appeared to be leg paralysis since she couldnt get up).


A partial seizure is characterized by a continuous twitching of a wing or leg.-- No, it started as a continuous twitching of her head, she kept trying to look back repeatedly.

Fortunately, many birds will recover from a seizure and slowly regain their ability to control their movements and perch. -- That's what happened which I found weird.. she had the episode and then within 5 or so minutes she was fine.

But, when I google "bird seizure" it doesn't look like what happened (no flapping wings, no vocalization, etc) but maybe all birds are different when it comes to this.

She's eating right now, she can drink on her own, and she seems alright. If this happens again I'll definitely get video of it. It was just really really weird, like a blend of twirling and a seizure.


To your second post:

I had no idea that I could include the egg shell.. I was afraid of them choking or getting it caught in their throat. I gave them egg yesterday and they didn't even touch it. They loved it when they were babies though

[lovezebs]

finchlover24

I crush hard boiled egg shells into little bits and mix it with their bird grit. Or you can offer it in bigger pieces and they munch it like potato chips. Very good for calcium, and the birdlings love it .

Here are two vitamine drops, which I use.....

[slwatson]

finchlover24

That's so awful for you and Cooper I hope it wasn't anything serious, and that she makes a full recovery

[cindy]

cindy Ah, probably something with the video's privacy settings.

Based on the article...

Symptoms:

Seizures may be mild to severe, partial or generalized, frequent or infrequent; and may involve twitching, paddling or convulsing. -- Yes to twitching.

A bird may present a sudden, temporary loss of consciousness and control of motor function. -- Yes to loss of motor function, not sure of consciousness.

It may appear disoriented and unable to perch. -- Yes, she was rolling on the floor and unable to get up on her own.

During a seizure, a bird may vocalize, lose consciousness, fall off its perch, flap its wings uncontrollably and stiffen its body. -- No vocalization that I could hear, she did fall off her perch, no flapping of wings, but stiffening of body (it appeared to be leg paralysis since she couldnt get up).


A partial seizure is characterized by a continuous twitching of a wing or leg.-- No, it started as a continuous twitching of her head, she kept trying to look back repeatedly.

Fortunately, many birds will recover from a seizure and slowly regain their ability to control their movements and perch. -- That's what happened which I found weird.. she had the episode and then within 5 or so minutes she was fine.

But, when I google "bird seizure" it doesn't look like what happened (no flapping wings, no vocalization, etc) but maybe all birds are different when it comes to this.

She's eating right now, she can drink on her own, and she seems alright. If this happens again I'll definitely get video of it. It was just really really weird, like a blend of twirling and a seizure.


To your second post:

I had no idea that I could include the egg shell.. I was afraid of them choking or getting it caught in their throat. I gave them egg yesterday and they didn't even touch it. They loved it when they were babies though

I do not give the shell crushed but grind it to a fine powder and mix it in the egg food. I will recommend a powdered vitamin over a liquid... certain species drink more or less than others.

[cindy]

this is the AviVita Gold Vitamins, Minerals and Amino Acids

AviVita Gold Vitamin, Mineral and Amino Acid Supplement for Birds
Guaranteed Analysis
Vitamin A 1000000 IU
Vitamin B1 1500 mg
Vitamin B2 3000 mg
Vitamin B3 12600 mg
Vitamin B5 4000 mg
Vitamin B6 1300 mg
Vitamin B12 10500 mg
Vitamin C 16000 mg
Vitamin D3 125000 mg
Vitamin E 6600 IU
Vitamin H 1 mg
Vitamin K1 50 mg
Folic Acid 400 mg
Choline 6550 mg
Inositol 130 mg
Aspartic Acid 800 mg
Alanine 500 mg
Arginine 250 mg
Cystine 250 mg
Glutamic Acid 1550 mg
Histidine 140 mg
Proline 325 mg
Serine 430 mg
Isoleucine 500 mg
Leucine 1000 mg
Lysine 2400 mg
Mechionine 2200 mg
Phenylalanine 350 mg
Threonine 450 mg
Tyrosine 70 mg
Calcium 4000 mg
Copper 250 mg
Iodine 100 mg
Iron 3000 mg
Manganese 1250 mg
Zinc 1250 mg