Java Not Well

[wildbird]

One of my Javas suddenly stopped eating late Friday afternoon. He did this in May and I took him to the vet. She gave Baytril mixed with a high energy food with a crop needle. In about 4 hours he was eating and returned to normal. She said he may have a kidney or liver infection. The droppings were checked, no bacteria or parasites found. What would cause kidney or liver infection and how could I prevent it, if that is what it is? I put a ceramic heat emitter on him and partially covered cage, but he did not want heat and stayed away from it. Later that night he started to nibble on seeds. The next day he was eating a little better, sleeping in between, and he did sing. Today he is much better, and is eating, but sometimes sleeps low on perch. He sings, but I just don't think he has that bright look in his eyes. Droppings started with a lot of clear water surrounding and sometimes soft. Color was normal. Smaller than normal. Some are fairly firm, but most have water around. The females are firmer and more defined. He seems to drink more water. Has always liked the small black granules in Kaytee mineral mix. I only give a pinch of it. Not sure if this is charcoal. I gave some charcoal just to see if he would eat it, and he didn't. I believe Kaytee is what he looks for in the mineral dish. He was also in the Herb dish today and eating something. The female was so worried about him Friday and Saturday, chattering, so sad. Any suggestions as to what might be causing this, and what I can do to prevent it? I cannot post any pictures. It came on very sudden, with no symptoms.

[cindy]

It is hard to say, sounds like something has hit the liver and kidneys. You mentioned in a previous either post or pm that you feed cantaloupe, that can make the droppings more watery, has he had that recently. Birds that are feverish (have infection) may drink more.

Will you try the baytril again, sounds like whatever it was helped this.

here is some info on liver disease
http://beautyofbirds.com/liverdisease.html

on the kidneys
http://beautyofbirds.com/kidneydiseasebirds.html

what has he been exposed to in the last few day that might be different, not exposed to everyday. Can you think of anything both incidents have in common

[wildbird]

I haven't given cantalope since spring and the only thing they both were given the last few days that I don't usually give, is organic spinach. They don't seem to like it, so I won't get anymore. I can't remember if he ate any of it, and not sure if I gave it on Friday. I know I gave romaine lettuce, because he didn't touch it, and he loves that. Today he ate that. Both birds get the same food. I do give fresh papaya and they usually eat that. On Friday I know they had Higgins Worldly Quisine mixed with toasted wheat germ, grated carrot. They may have had papaya on the side and I may have mixed chopped spinach in with the quisine. The vet would have to give Baytril. He is eating and quite active, so not sure if I will take him. See how he is tomorrow. I would like to know what caused it, as they both get the same food. Though sometimes he will eat foods that she won't. Thank you for the websites. I'll check them out now.

[erine]

wildbird So sorry to hear about your sick little Java. Hope he recovers well.

[wildbird]

Thanks Erine, he seems to be much better. I read the above websites that Cindy posted, and the closest to his symptoms seem to point to kidney impairment. Possibly a toxin. He eats quite a bit of fresh papaya, which I read is high in salt. Not good for kidneys. It does have a high vitamin A content. I also read that it is most likely to be a GMO product. I bought some organic parsley today to help decrease uric acid. He ate the couscous with grated carrot, corn and peas and Avitech Avivita Gold vitamins. Also romaine lettuce. He seems good now, except the droppings are still not as firm as the females, and surrounded by water. Still not sure what caused it.

[cindy]

Romaine is high in water, go easy on it.

Fruit also is a lot of sugar and water... there are other ways to give him A...plus if you are using a vitamin supplement you need to be careful not to over do, too much of certain vitamins can have an adverse effect. Too much of a good thing is not necessarily a good thing. Parsley and carrots contain a lot of A as well...everything in moderation.

this is from a site on human use but it is still the same in animals, birds...their bodies are much smaller, metabolism is different...."Because vitamin A is fat soluble, the body stores excess amounts, primarily in the liver, and these levels can accumulate... consume too much vitamin A, their tissue levels take a long time to fall after they discontinue their intake, and the resulting liver damage is not always reversible"

Do not be fooled by the word organic... some of the organic chemicals allowed to be used on organics can be more toxic or just as toxic as synthetics. wash all veggies well.

[wildbird]

They only get a small piece of romaine and seldom get any parsly. I agree that vitamin A can be overdosed easily. He is given a light dusting of the Avitech twice a week and dosen't eat much of that anyway. This is no where near the recommended dosage. The only fruit they get is the papaya, which they won't be getting much of now. Organic produce is not supposed to have pesticide on it. Several well known avian vets have recommended it. But regardless of whether it is organic or not, I always wash it well. Early this morning he was singing. He is back to normal today, on the swing, very active and eating. He also cut back on the water intake. The droppings are firmer and not much water around it. I don't think it was a liver issue, as there was no green or yellow in the droppings. Still don't know what caused it though. Glad he is better and hope he stays that way.

[cindy]

They only get a small piece of romaine and seldom get any parsly. I agree that vitamin A can be overdosed easily. He is given a light dusting of the Avitech twice a week and dosen't eat much of that anyway. This is no where near the recommended dosage. The only fruit they get is the papaya, which they won't be getting much of now. Organic produce is not supposed to have pesticide on it. Several well known avian vets have recommended it. But regardless of whether it is organic or not, I always wash it well. Early this morning he was singing. He is back to normal today, on the swing, very active and eating. He also cut back on the water intake. The droppings are firmer and not much water around it. I don't think it was a liver issue, as there was no green or yellow in the droppings. Still don't know what caused it though. Glad he is better and hope he stays that way.

Organic does not necessarily mean free of any pesticides.... they are allowed to use organic pesticides, some can be more toxic than synthetics... and they are allowed to use some approved synthetics if needed...see below.

http://www.safefruitsandveggies.com/regulations/organic

quotes from the article... "Organic farmers can use pesticides derived from natural sources and pesticides that include synthetic substances within the regulations of the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) National Organic Program (NOP) if other strategies and cultural management practices fail to control pests and diseases."

"Due to their low toxicity, many of the natural pesticides are exempt from the U.S. EPA requirement for a tolerance level, or allowable limit, for residues on food."

So basically if natural pesticides are need to be used more often, that is allowable. Natural does not always mean safer or less toxic than synthetic.