FINCHforum

Hi

I lost my poorly Mr Zeb, found him dead this morning.

Laraine from lady gouldian says I should get some kd water cleanser for my other birds, but in the uk the only place I can find selling it does 200g of powder for almost fifty quid. I just cant afford that..

Ive googled like crazy, but to no avail, Laraine says its not like aviclens so does anyone have smaller quantities for sale? Even if its privately on here I want to do the best for my feather babies and cant fathom what could possibly be in that powder for it to cost so much as there are no ingredients written anywhere.. maybe its made of dragons tears and unicorn blood..

On a less sarcastic tone, I really want to get some if Laraine thinks its what I need but im at a loss as to the price

fluffydust

I have no idea, if you have to milk Unicorns, and mix it with fairy dust, to get the right mix, because personally I have never used it.

Could you get a Brita water filter pitcher over there? I think the filtered water would be just fine for your birds (if you're worried about your regular water).

Personally, I use just regular tap water over here, and have never had any problems with it. However, I'm not sure what your water is like in the UK.

I tried looking up the ingredient(s) and the best I found is a claim that it acidifies the food in the crop [claimed to be beneficial], and in large doses sterilizes the water.

Not being a believer in magic potions at any price It seems to me that you could accomplish the same thing by keeping the water clean and feeding a slice of orange or apple a couple of times a week.
Both foods are moderately acid and nutritious as well.
Orange has a pH of around 4.6 and apple's pH is ~3.3.

Another option, is to add a drop or two of organic unpasteurized unfiltered apple cider vinegar to water.

KD water cleanser is one of Dr. Rob Marshall's products, and they tend to be pricey. I don't understand why Aviclens wouldn't work, and it is made by the Bird Care Co., a UK-based company, so it should be economical for you.

a safer more gentle way is to use organic apple cider vinegar, ACV once or twice a week in the water. It is makes the GI tract a bit acidic, used to keep parasites and yeast at bay...it should not be used daily unless the birds have an active case of yeast, believe it is used for 7 to 10 days.

Dose is 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons ACV to one gallon of water.

Do you know why your bird died, symptoms.. your birds may need a different treatment. Was it bacterial,parasitic, yeast, coccidia,viral?

fluffydust you can also try find F10SC. Also manufactured in UK and probably available through any vet.
Here I get it via my vet or through specialised pet stores.
See its on amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/F10-F10SC-Disin ... B004FG803E

F10 is highly concentrated and very powerful disinfectant. Non-corrosive and doesn't build up in birds muscle tissues. Perfectly safe to use in their water and as a cage disinfectant at the various recommended rates.
A little goes a long way.

What about Megamix ? not sure what difference is but also acid based

http://www.awbirds.co.uk/megamix-30ml-- ... -755-p.asp

Wow thanks everyone, what a great response!

I always have organic apple cider vinegar in the house, as its incredibly useful so will give that a go too.

(I also use it to kill fruit flies, put half a small cup of cider vinegar in the place where said little beggars have arrived, squirt a bit of fairy liquid or similar dish soap on top to break surface tension, and you will find you have trapped and killed every one of the little sods by the end of the day)

Laraine from lady gouldian took pity on me and is sending me a bit of KD which should be enough for my 5 finches for a couple months which is really really sweet and kind of her.

She really went out of her way to try and help me save Mr Zeb, and im quite sure she helped extend his life and make his final days more comfortable.

The water quality here in the east midlands in uk is a bit hard, so I tend to use bottled spring water (can get 8 2 litre bottles for about 4 quid and that's good for my birdies im sure)

Great advice and help from everyone as usual - this forum rocks!

cindy wrote: a safer more gentle way is to use organic apple cider vinegar, ACV once or twice a week in the water. It is makes the GI tract a bit acidic, used to keep parasites and yeast at bay...it should not be used daily unless the birds have an active case of yeast, believe it is used for 7 to 10 days.

Dose is 1 1/2 to 2 tablespoons ACV to one gallon of water.

Do you know why your bird died, symptoms.. your birds may need a different treatment. Was it bacterial,parasitic, yeast, coccidia,viral?

unfortunately it is very hard to say what he died of. laraine from lady gouldian and my own research seemed to suggest he had a respiratory problem, but he also showed signs of what seemed to be a stroke. Was like he had bells palsy, but I know signs of stroke in humans and mammals much better than birds although I understand it is possible

not sure why then she is suggesting the KD if it is unclear why they passed. KD is a chemical, can be a bit caustic is used for a length of time (regimen recommends once a week) , what did she suggest using it to treat your birds for?

Said it would boost the immunity of my remaining birds, his death was of something we cant be sure of. Its probably belt and braces as they say. Im getting given some which is very kind so I will try it, as she says for 2 days a week for a couple months at least.

She has seen more detail about the various symptoms and a prior death of a bird of mine over a year ago, she does have many years experience so will definitely try it.

Ive also bought some avisafe disinfectant for the cage, some daily essentials 3 vitamins and calcivet hoping to keep my birds healthy. They have such a complicated and varied diet now its a wonder they aren't Olympic athletes... but hey, I love my birdies!

after using the KD you probably should give them probiotics in soft foods... KD is very acidic and may destroy some gut flora, you will need to replace it.

Personally I would not use the product (no ingredients listed, my question is why?) I want to know what my birds are ingesting especially since you are basically forcing them to drink it in their water.

If your bird was carrying something and was housed with other birds then your birds have been exposed. Watch them carefully. To help build them up I would use probiotics, vitamins or pellets, egg foods, soft foods.

Personally I would not use the product (no ingredients listed, my question is why?) I want to know what my birds are ingesting

I have found over the years that Dr Marshall is very secretive about the ingredients of his products and rarely if ever lists them.
Not something that I'd use myself but there are many that trust his products. Honestly I've never heard of problems using them just not my thing.

Ok, I'm a serious skeptic and like to see hard data on any medications.

"Boosting immunity" is one of those nonsense claims made by almost all supplement sellers. The immune system is complex and is made up of a myriad of components. What specifically does this "boost"? Any real data?
I'll bet not.

A magic potion with no listed ingredients is truly scary if not a waste of money.

If acidifying the gut has some proven benefit [does it?] why use an unknown chemical when you can do it with healthy diet?