Overnight finch death catastrophe

[SpazBunny]

Hi, my name is Gabe and I'm quite new to taking care of finches for the most part. I got three zebra finches originally. Two males and one female, and about exactly two weeks later two of the three died in the same evening.

A single male zebra finch named Shamar was found face first in the food dish snuggled up to his dead friend, hardly alive, but twitching. I picked him up with my hands and he was usually an energetic, anti-human type, but he just submitted and let me put him in a shoe box shelter I made. I sprinkled food around him in the box and he slowly made his way to it, then 10 hours later, he could be moved back to his cage (after a very thorough cleaning) and he recovered to 100% within a day.

I believe the birds that had died may have been affected by the Chlorox Bleach wet wipes my mom used on the table around them, so ever since then I have been carefully using strictly bird-friendly spray disinfectant from the pet store. Their diet was oyster shell mixed with their food, and they had cuttlefish bones they were pretty in to. Since I got the new birds, I had fed them baby spinach and the white parts of hard boiled eggs on occasion.

Regardless, Shamar was alone for a while but seemed fine. He just got suddenly very noisey. I got two new zebra finches from the pet store when they got some ordered, so I got another male and a female for Shamar. Shamar initially chased the new male bird, Sanchez, away from wherever he was. Mostly restricting him to the cage floor. Shamar and Deena, the new female were glued to each other immediately and Sanchez was rejected. I put clothespins on their perches as dividers and that seemed to solve it. Eventually I saw all three of them snuggling at night.

However, almost every night I'd hear a loud bang. It seemed Deena was always falling from her perch and would scramble around the cage floor in the dark until morning. Well, finally, that happened again, and I noticed she was poofy and hiding her face in her feathers, shivering. I picked her up and did the shoe box shelter treatment, she was basically limp and didn't react to me touching her. Twenty minutes later, instead of seeing a white poof ball of a bird, she was collapsed and still. She never moved to eat her food and I even kept a lamp on her to keep her warm. I don't understand how this happened! She wasn't visibly injured.

This was last night. I was up all night making sure they were okay. Shamar and Sanchez are glued to each other on the perch, which is weird because they used to terrorize each other. Sanchez is looking a little poofy and has his face in his feathers for long periods of time, but currently he can still jump around and sing when I get their attention. I gave them new food and water this morning. I don't want Shamar to be the sole survivor again! He looks 100% right now while I'd say Sanchez is looking 50%. I'm cleaning the bottom of their cage, (the top detaches) before putting them back, they're currently above news paper on my floor. Their droppings look yellow. Not sure if that means anything. My room is very warm, heat cranked. With a woodstove burning in the basement too.

How can I stop Sanchez from meeting a tragic end? He's poofy and has his head hidden away and from my experience that means he could be hours from death as well.

[Sally]

So sorry for the losses you have had. The first ones possibly were from the bleach wipes, as many cleaning items can be toxic to birds. You mention a woodstove in the basement. I have no experience with them, I wonder if there could be fumes coming from that?

One thing I will say is that it is rarely a good idea to have three birds in a cage. What usually happens is that two of them buddy up and pick on the third one. Your combination of two males and one hen is not good, as the two males will fight over the hen and/or they will get too aggressive on the one hen. Much better to just have two birds (a pair, or two males, or two hens).

Birds may sleep with their head tucked under their wing, but if they are very puffy and doing this for long periods of time, then it is a sign they are sick. One of the best things you can do when they look sick is to provide heat. This is easy to do with a gooseneck desk lamp and a 60w bulb. Just aim the lamp at one perch, so the birds can sit in the warmth if they want, but have room to move away from it as well.

Welcome to the forum, though it is not under the best of circumstances. There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on finch care. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.

[SpazBunny]

Alright, thanks for the quick response. the reason I got three in the first place was because the pet store only had three at the time. I knew the birds didn't like being alone and I didn't want to leave one behind at the store.

I gave the pair a sauna experience in my bathroom with the hot shower steaming up the room and they stopped being poofy and ate some baby spinach. They're back in my room after a gradual transition to normal humidity. Currently both of them are snuggled on the top perch hiding their face. They don't usually do that when they sleep from what I've seen, they just slouch and balance.

I guess if anyone has further suggestions so I don't find them giving up in a food dish in three hours that would be appreciated. I'll take all precautions and check on them periodically.

[lovezebs]

SpazBunny

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

So we have 3 dead birds, one that is not doing well, and one who is fine, have I got this right?

There is obviously something going on in the environment, or with their diet, that's causing this.

You have to look very carefully at all the environmental things, and that can be very time consuming , but has to be done.

You mention, that the bird cage is in your room, and that it's very warm (how warm/hot is it approximately)?
-Are there any Air Purifiers with ionizor in the room ? (ionizors will kill birds and should be turned off immediately).
-Do you use any air freshners in the room (plug-ins, candles, Incense, sprays, oils etc.) Big no-no.
-Any hair sprays, bug sprays, perfume sprays, etc. ?
-Does anyone smoke in the room?
-Are you using a clip on bug and mite control on the cage, or anything with moth balls in the room?

-Is anyone in the house using non stick, teflon cook ware, pots and pans ? The fumes will kill birds very quickly.
- Strong cleaners, bleach, etc. that can spread fumes throughout the house? Paints, paint thinners? Any strong chemicals?

Now to diet: The odds of birds dying so suddenly and quickly from dietary problems, is unlikely, but let's touch all basis.

Finch seed mix
Fresh water (daily) both for drinkibg and bathing.
Some greens
Hard boiled eggs (yolk and white) plus you can crush the shells and offer them too (calcium rich).
Bird grit, cuttle bone, mineral block.

If these are being offered, than birds should be ok in that department.

As Sally, mentioned, could the wood burning fire place/stove, be giving out some fumes or worst yet carbon monoxide (this can be very scary, and lethal to people as well as birds and you wouldn't be able to smell it either).

Please go over this list very carefully, and keep us updated.

Good luck

[Spreckles]

wow good info again!

[debbie276]

What are you feeding? Their poop shouldn't be yellow unless it's from the diet you have them on.
Are you sure that Shamar is not passing on an illness to the others, maybe something he built up antibodies to the first time they got sick.
Do you quarentine new birds?

Welcome to the forum

[lovezebs]

SpazBunny

Where did we get the idea of the 'sauna experience' from, by the way?

[SpazBunny]

They're still doing well, I'm pleased to say. Kind of lazy looking but they perk up and chirp when they catch sight of me.

The sauna experience idea came from a post I read on Yahoo answers (I can feel the wincing this may cause) of someone recommending to manually bathe a shivering finch in a warm room. I did not want to go as far as that because I've never heard of that, and I believe my birds would be traumatized forever if I attempted that. I determined some humidity and time in consistent warmth would help them out, as well as getting some moisture in their feathers.

Non-stick or Teflon pots and pans? I asked my mom and she said that we did use them, but they are old and their non stick capabilities have gone away. The kitchen is on the other side of the house and I usually always keep the door closed for the room that they're in.

Sprays. That is something I'll be extra careful with in the future because I do use cologne on myself in the morning nearby. I made an effort to do it away from them but I understand if that isn't enough.

Their diet is basically what you listed, but mostly birdseed mixed with oyster shell bits. They're addicted to the cuttlefish bone, I'm not sure when it's time to replace those, but it's experienced a lot of pecking.

The room temperature is probably 25 Celsius on average, sorry if you use imperial system... I'd say the room can be 65-75 Fahrenheit. They're in front of a large window but I've never detected or felt a draft. It's a pretty good sealed window.

[Sojourner]

SpazBunny

Where did we get the idea of the 'sauna experience' from, by the way?

I don't know where the OP got the idea, but I got it from a post in the thread on egg-bound birds, which suggests 60% humidity (impossible to achieve here in the High Sierra Desert for any length of time outside of a bathroom running a hot shower)

[cindy]

Sorry you are going through this

Can you post a close up of the birds droppings.... put white paper toweling underneath them and get a good clear close up. are the droppings formed, mushy or watery?

When the birds passed was there food in the crop, did they feel thin?

You need to be careful doing a "suana" treatment without supplying a direct heat on them afterwards (not a warm room but a heat lamp as Debbie suggested.)

[Sally]

SpazBunny

Where did we get the idea of the 'sauna experience' from, by the way?

I don't know where the OP got the idea, but I got it from a post in the thread on egg-bound birds, which suggests 60% humidity (impossible to achieve here in the High Sierra Desert for any length of time outside of a bathroom running a hot shower)

Easiest way to supply humidity is to wet a small towel, wring it out, and then drape it over one end of the cage, away from the heat lamp.

As far as Teflon pans, the danger comes if they are overheated, pretty much to the point of smoking. Under normal use, they should be OK. I have a whole set of Calphalon pans, and I've never had a problem (I live in a small house). Once, I did overheat a pan (forgot to turn off the burner). The pan was smoking, I raced out of the house with it, and then aired out the house, and I didn't lose any birds.

Do be careful with any cleaning products and also any fragrance (you could always put it on in another room from the birds).

Birdseed mixed with a little oystershell grit is a pretty basic diet. I'd suggest adding some veggies to their diet (dark leafy greens, broccoli, carrots, cucumber to start with). Some birds really love the cuttlebone, so if yours do, that is a good source of calcium too. Another really good addition to their diet is hardboiled egg. You can mash an egg shell and all and offer it to your birds--eggs are full of protein plus lots of other good things.

[lovezebs]

So, if it's not environmental or dietary , than sadly, the only other thing I can think of is some sort of an illness.

Sorry, but I am not a Veterinarian, and I can't diagnose illnesses.

If you have access to an Avian Vet, I would try to get a medical opinion.

Wishing you all the best of luck, and I hope that these guys will perk up and come around.

[SpazBunny]

They seem quite normal and not poofy this morning, however their droppings are still very yellow. I put paper towel in there and have a photo as requested.
http://imgur.com/hGIDhGq

[lovezebs]

SpazBunny

Those poops look fairly normal to me. The yellow part, as far as I can tell, is just the urine part of the package. Of course I'm no poopologist .

[cindy]

Can you remove the paper and photograph a close up, try to get a clear picture looking straight down at the droppings...this is too far away and even sizing the picture down is not helping.