FINCHforum

Hello, all. Just to say up-front; I've already made a vet appointment for tomorrow. But I was wondering if anyone might have any input- I would really appreciate it since I'm stuck waiting the night.

Now, I can't say this with perfect accuracy, but possibly since October...? I've been hearing my female Java sparrow make a sort of throat noise as she settled down fluffy and sleeping on my hand. It would be one or three times, then stop. I always kept listening, but as she's in fine health and spirits, didn't think much of it. I even mentioned it to the vet two weeks ago, when she got her annual health check (poked and prodded and stethoscoped and poop culture) and the vet said if it's not consistent, it could just be her little habit (such as people who make mouth noises before they sleep)

Yesterday, I noticed that the sound had progresssd a bit to a beat- 3 clicks pause, 3 clicks pause, etc. Then 2. Then down to 1. It doesn't seem 100% consistent, but it's noticeable for me, the god of paranoia. It's more pronounced if she was just moving a lot.

She's not open-mouthed breathing, no eye or nasal discharge, feathers are clean and smooth, she has almost too much energy, she's flying, pooping, eating, trying to mate with me (she's hand tame to the extreme and loves cuddles and kisses- which is why I was close enough to hear these faint sounds in the first place). She's not gasping, excessively sneezing, picking, scratching, wiping her beak or tail bobbing. She's sure on her feet. She's got a heater in her cage and is on a half-seed half-pellet diet. She's not overweight.

So basically, save for the sound, there doesn't appear to be any other symptoms. Have I possibly caught something early? Am I overthinking? All the other posts I've seen about a "clicking noise" say their birds are either open beaked or lethargic. Anything at all would be appreciated. Thanks!!

Do Java sparrows get air sac mites?

Rothe18

Air sac mites did cross my mind initially, but.....

Can you just pick her up and put her against your ear? and listen to her breathing?

I've been reading a lot about the listening close to the ear thing. I truly don't understand what "clicking" is supposed to mean. If anything, it sounds a little more like gentle sucking to me. I can actually hear the sound when I'm maybe 2 or 3 inches away, if there's a quiet moment. Of course I hear it when she's near my ear. Her breathing is in no way labored. It's strongest when she moves. It does subside after she stops moving, but any movement starts it again.

She's still normal, nothing has changed.

Rothe18

The clicking sound, is like a tik click tik click tik sound with each breath the bird takes and expels. It's difficult to explain a sound really..... sort of like holding a small watch to your ear, but not exactly the same.

What you are describing is different.

Let us know what your Vet says tomorrow. I'd be curious to know what he/she thinks it might be.

I think what you are hearing is what has been described to me as "purring". It is a sound they make when their mate is near or they are ready to breed. My females makes this noise quite often. I did not know what it was until someone who raised them told me. Hopefully, this is all that is going on.

Rothe18

What did the Vet have to say about your little Java girlie?

I hope everything is alright (?)

Thanks so much for your concern, lovezebs!!! Ok, here's the update.... I might make a separate post because I'm curious about what people may think.

Her one problem is that she's constantly in heat, and has been for a few months. The slightest provocation will send her tail shaking at me, ready to go. This was already a thing.

The diagnosis from the vet, after checking for air sac mites, poking around and listening to her with a stethoscope, came after an x-ray. She explained to me that her bones, rather than white filled with gray, appeared all white because of hormones. The same hormones have caused her abdomen to enlarge in preparation for egg laying (no egg currently forming), enough that we can't see the lower air-sacs in the x-ray. She believes the constant state of heat is to blame, and the enlarged abdomen (not visible as a swelling from the outside) is putting pressure on her air sacs and inhibiting her breathing somewhat.

On top of that, and I can only take her word because the x-ray really looks only like gray blobs to me, she said it's possible, it seems that her thyroid might be resting ever so slightly against her trachea, which could also be slightly restricting air flow. She suggested it could be an iodine deficiency, or goiter. Possibly. But as she eats pellets, I don't see how that could be the case... but I'm not the doctor.

So, as of now, I was given an iodine supplement, and a hormone suppressant (sorry, I don't know the name) to be put daily into her water. It's a drop to 50 ccs for the iodine solution, and .1 in a tiny syringe for 50 ccs of the hormone solution, both to be used together. I'm due for another check up in a week, probably with 2 or 3 more visits, before another x-ray will be taken in a month's time. She said this process is slow, but there's no emergency and I noticed early.

Does this sound viable? Is there anything missing? Any other tests that should be done, that I could suggest? I trust this vet, she's always been good to me, but I can't completely grasp if this is a severe situation or not from the wording that she used. Cysts, I assume, would have shown in an ex-ray, as well as organomegaly. If it was acitis, her belly would be squishy, I think...?

Recently, though I don't hear the sounds more frequently, when I do hear them they're more rapid and a little louder. Her behavior hasn't changed either- she doesn't seem to be at all affected by this, though I know how little that can mean with birds. Next check up is tomorrow.

So... yeah.

Rothe18

Have you considered getting her a gentleman friend, of the feathered kind?
I mean I know it's not a perfect solution, but it may help with the hormonal issues.

Regarding the iodine drops, be very careful not to overdose her on it.
There are natural ways of supplementing birdies with iodine through diet...
Here's a little write up about it which I found, which might be helpful:

"Iodine Rich Foods
1. Sea Vegetables

The ocean hosts the largest storehouse of iodine foods, including Kelp, Arame, Hiziki, Kombu, and Wakame. Kelp has the highest amount of iodine of any food on the planet and just one serving offers 4 times the daily minimum requirement. 1 tablespoon of Kelp contains about 2000/mcg of iodine, 1 tablespoon of Arame contains about 730/mcg of iodine, 1 tablespoon of Hiziki contains about 780/mcg of iodine, 1 one inch piece of Kombu contains about 1450/mcg of iodine, 1 tablespoon of Wakame contains about 80/mcg of iodine. I recommend sprinkling these into soups or salads."

Good luck with your appointment.

I was actually a little surprised about being given iodine, myself. She's on a pelleted diet, like I said, so that really ought to be sufficient, and I've heard, in cases that warrant it, that supplementing the iodine for 3 days is usually enough... I'm going to ask the vet to take her off it when I go tomorrow because it's not affecting anything and it makes me very uncomfortable.

As far as getting her a friend, she did have a bonded girl friend who passed away suddenly last June. Her eggy behavior started the winter before that, when she laid two thin eggs that broke because she did it off a high perch. She didn't seem to care, though. I tried to get her a new friend, who turned out to be a boy.... who died tragically when he dived under me as I tripped and fell. She bullied him a LOT. But they actually performed mating dances for each other. Then she bit him. And chased him. And invaded his cage and ate his food. Then she bullied my friend's parakeet who came to stay for 4 days while she was on vacation. But she loves looking at her reflection... so maybe she is lonely. But after the deaths of my other two babies.... I'm not ready to try again just yet.

Rothe18

Just my opinion here, but personally I would offer some natural foods along with her all pellet diet.

I would offer some greens, a few seeds, maybe a bit of mashed hard boiled egg, along with crushed egg shells. Some spray millet would be yummy fun for her.

Iodine is very important for birds, but as mentioned above, my choice would be to offer it through some natural source like kelp, etc.

Sorry that offering her a friend is not an option.

Curious to learn what your Vet suggests.
Feel free to run my ideas by her, and keep us updated.

Thank you for your concern and advice, lovezebs!!! When I say pelleted, I just mean mainly- of course I give her a variety of stuff alongside it!

She gets calcium flakes, along with fruits, seeds and veggies and sometimes a piece of pasta for a snack (it's her favorite and she goes bonkers trying to steal it from me while I eat).

I'm just wondering... since it sounds like the sounds are getting more pronounced, though she's not changing, I don't know... it sounds so much like it could be a respiratory infection despite the lack of other symptoms, I wonder if the vet didn't think so at all? Well, tomorrow is another chance to check and talk.

Rothe18

If the Vet listened to birdie's chest and didn't hear any suspicious sounds, then I wouldn't worry too much about infection.

Glad to hear that your girl is enjoying a variety of foods.

An excellent iodine source, unless you have access to powdered kelp, is oyster shell.
The ground shell you buy is sold for chickens and is too coarse for finches so the answer is to grind it to a finer flake or powder in one of those cheap coffee bean grinders.
A safe and inexpensive source of both calcium and iodine.
I routinely add some to my finchs' diet.

Thank you all for your advice!!! Ok, today's prognosis was a bit reassuring. It seems that, due to a noted lack of other symptoms, and that there are no strange noises when listening to her chest, that she is probably not "sick", persay.

The vet told me that sometimes finches make strange noises for no reason- at the very least it could be nothing, at most, it could be because of pressure on her air sacs because of the enlarged abdomen. I've been told in no uncertain terms that I have to do my utmost to stop the rushing hormones and let her body calm down to find out, which takes a while. But I really have to control myself now... no kisses or cuddles. I must be strong. So if the sound she's making is because of that, it'll take a little while to confirm.

As I said, the noise, while not becoming more frequent, seemed to become a little louder and rapid when happening, but of course it didn't happen once while in the vets office this morning, making her believe more that it may not be directly related, or the symptom of something worse, as in 2 weeks her health hasn't deteriorated at all.

We're continuing with the hormone suppressants and iodine supplements for now. She said it appears that her thyroid gland is slightly enlarged, but not enough to worry.

All in all, as long as her eggy parts reduce in size, she seems to be in no danger.