Conjunctivitis

[Sojourner]

So one of my birds has come down with this but only in one eye. I don't know if its bacterial, viral, or due to an injury. It is my white society hen, Pyewacket. She is showing no signs of actual illness - no breathing problems, not off her feed, plenty active. She currently appears normal except for the swollen red weepy eye. It looks as if she has lost feathers around the eye but that may be an artefact of the swelling.

I cannot get a picture. Every time I try she insists on cocking her head to observe me with her good eye. But it looks like the pictures I can find of finches with conjunctivitis on the 'net.

I feel I should separate her and Bambi - fortunately I just got 2 quarantine cages as I was planning on bringing home some societies and owls that a local Gouldian breeder has wanted to rehome. If it is psittacosis it is SUPER contagious. Needless to say no new birds are coming home with me. I'm a bit concerned about Bambi for sure as he shares the cage with her, but also Thing 1 and Thing 2 even though they are 25' away.

Hopefully I can take the big cage out tomorrow or the day after (its supposed to be over 60F tomorrow and over 70F the day after, it's been mostly in the low 50s up to now) and give it a total scrub down and sterilization with bleach. I don't know how this could have happened.

Tomorrow I will also run out to the local feed store and pray they have some medication for chickens. If they have any its not on their website. I would be looking for tetracycline or Doxycycline . I have appropriate dosages for Doxycycline for finches but not for the tetracycline.

I've already checked at the Petco/Petsmarts and they have no fish medication any more. I have not checked at the local Reef fish store - I'm not all that enthused at the thought of trying to use fish meds anyway. Hopefully the feed store can fix me up. I'm worried that the medication won't get here soon enough if I try to order from an online source.

Please don't mention the phrase "avian vet". I have been waiting until my disability check comes (tomorrow) just to get groceries. Thankfully I found a $20 bill while weeding my yard last week or I'd be even harder up than I am now. There just is not $100+ (just for the initial visit) in the budget for an "Avian vet". I expect to lose one or more of my own teeth as I need some dental work and it will be into August or September before I have even a start on the money for that. So no joke, there is NO money for a vet for poor Pye.

So I've read that Doxycycline can't be properly absorbed unless you remove all calcium sources from the cage. I guess that will be fine for Bambi and Thing 1 and Thing 2 as they are all boys, but Pye is the hen who won't stop laying. Even though I finally gave up and removed the nest from the cage (11 eggs, after discarding around 8 or so previously, none hatching or looking likely to hatch) she still drops an egg about every 3rd day.

So I read about this other stuff called Megamix which is supposed to allow you to continue normal mineral supplementation in conjunction with the doxycycline.

https://ladygouldian.com/Doxycycline-Mega-Mix-Cocktail

1) Has anybody heard of this Megamix stuff? Should I go ahead and get some for Pye so she doesn't end up egg-bound?
2) Is 3 days REALLY enough time to tell if the doxycycline is working?
3) Should I go ahead and prophylactically treat all my birds?
4) If the doxycycline doesn't work, what should I try next?
5) If the doxycycline isn't the FIRST thing you would try, what is?
6) ANY ADVICE to help would be greatly greatly appreciated, even if I can't think of the right questions to ask.

I've never really had a sick bird, other than when Molly Brown (both the original canary and her finchly namesake) got egg bound and they were just ... GONE. Before I could really do anything.

The only thing I can think is I transferred something inside from last week when I was trying to clean up and dispose of a truly hideous (and filthy) home-made bird bath left by the previous residents. I don't handle my birds and I always feed in the morning (well before my encounter with the Uggly Bird Bath) - but that's the only way I can think I might have managed to infect poor Pye. I don't know how else she could have got it. Maybe its an injury but otherwise, I am at a loss.

Or hell, maybe I'm actually a carrier and my guys have just been lucky so far. I know my sister was letting her big parrots flop around loose when she was mooching off my dad, and he came down with pneumonia THREE TIMES before I found out what was going on and went over there and kicked her out. I came down with pneumonia myself shortly after cleaning up the mess there. It was truly nasty - bird poop encrusted along the walls where the cages sat and the carpet literally CRUNCHED when I walked across it. Could *I* actually be a carrier and infected my birds?

OR MY GOSH, it just occurred to me - could I have carried it inside on some of the weeds I've been giving them? They go to town on the seed - but maybe it isn't safe? I didn't think to wash them. The more I think about all the ways I could have caused this, the worse I feel.

Help?

[Sheather]

I can't help with medication, but I have seen this one or two times, and it cleared on its own without attention, leading me to assume it was nothing terribly serious. I would not panic, and I would doubt very much it's Psittacosis, or related to your sister's parrots in any way, because you have had these birds for a significant length of time and nothing has shown until now.

I would not separate your birds. If it's catchy, he's going to be carrying it already, and the stress could worsen the female's condition if it isn't simply the result of injury or a minor, passing flare up.

[lovezebs]

Sojourner

Make some regular tea (not herbal) and let it cool off.
Wash her eye with it a couple of times a day.

[andiok]

Sojourner

i just had this in one of my canaries.
if the whole area around its eye is not swollen i wouldnt be worried, even if there's feathers missing. they scratch their face because its itchy due to the infection.
I treated with pink eye drops but the once prescribed by the doctor.
i had the drops when my kid had some sort of pink eye. cant remember the name but i can get back to you if you need it.

i applied it once a day and it cleared up the eye in about 2-3days and the eye itself is not swollen anymore.

[Sojourner]

She is obviously much worse now. She is puffy and bedraggled looking and has started to pant.

I don't think I should wait any longer. Probably waited too long as it is. But I was up most of the night trying to keep an eye on her (in the dark) and finally fell asleep - just woke up a few minutes ago.

I guess I'd better make the rounds of the feed stores and hope somebody has some chicken meds. I swear i don't know how people manage to find bird meds in time.

Does anybody know, is it true you have to mix up the doxycycline fresh every morning?

[Sojourner]

NO MEDS IN THIS STATE AT ALL!!!!

Pyewacket will die before I can get meds in from out of state.

Stupid legislators. Apparently they banned all veterinary meds from being sold over the counter because sometimes people buy them for themselves.

Well maybe they wouldn't need to do that if we ALL had access to medical care as needed!

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

What's worse is many vets want in on the human health care $$ and their prices are getting sky high just like the hospitals.

We were researching euthanasia costs for our cat that is declining. Average price is $200 in our state!!!! For EUTHANASIA!!

Way to jack up the cost on a sad, but very needed service.I have to agree, it's getting sick and twisted out there.

Would love to root out the gremlins responsible for this calculated nationwide wave of suffering and carnage to human and animal.

I hope she makes it through. Maybe someone has a good homeopathic way to fix this and will chime in.

[Sojourner]

Babs andiok Sheather lovezebs

Right at this moment I am so angry I could spit.

I have called every avian vet in town, plus some ag vets (in case they keep doxycycline on hand to treat chickens) - no joy.

None of the avian vets could be bothered to see a little finch. One place told me their avian vet was leaving early and wouldn't be back until next week some time.

The other tells me that they are "packing up to go home" over an hour before their listed closing time - also wouldn't see the bird, nor would they give me enough medication to at least see her through til the morning.

The ag vets told me to call the avian vets. ALL of these places kept me on the phone for 15 to 30 mins while they took down unnecessary personal information and ditzed around before actually ASKING the ONE avian vet at each clinic when/whether they would even see the bird.

I finally blew my top with one of these gatekeepers when he insisted I spell Pyewacket for him (this, after a lot of other pointless questions, repetitions because he apparently doesn't hear well, and attempts to extract useless information).

Why, I asked him, did I even need to do that - what if she didn't even HAVE a name? I WANTED AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT YOUR VET IS GOING TO HELP ME. I don't give a crap about your records. If your vet isn't going to see me - as was, indeed, the case - then there's no need to make up records. And if he IS going to see her, then that can be taken care of at the clinic when I get there.

Keeping in mind "blowing my top" means insisting on answers to pointed questions, not screaming into the phone.

Unless one of the bird supply places calls me back tonight - which seems doubtful at this point as even the one in CA was probably closed by the time I got done being jerked around by veterinary staff where the vets refused to see me anyway.

Whether she passes by morning light or not, at this point I still need the meds to treat all my other birds as psittacosis is EXTREMELY contagious. I've probably had it myself, after cleaning up after my sister's birds that had been allowed to crap all over the place for like 2 or 3 years. Hell, for all I know, I am now a carrier and maybe gave it to my own birds.

I just cannot imagine why anyone thought it would be a good idea to force farmers who raise chickens to call in a vet for a chicken. You know they won't do that. I'll bet every single chicken farmer in this state (granted there probably aren't many if any large scale operations in NV) has meds stockpiled by buying them out of state.

I could just bust a gut. I hate this state so much. I live for the day I can get out of here and go somewhere normal again.

[andiok]

Sojourner
I'm sorry to hear what you've been through and I understand that kind of frustration but honestly if you don't know if it's actually psittacosis or not. Most of my birds that had issues with their eyes have only had an infection and has cured even with just natural cures like camomile tea and garlic extract.
You could buy the over the counter medicine for pink eye and give it a try. Seeing how hard is to go through vets I would just go ahead with what you can

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

Keep her warm and comfortable. Ordering a two day air shipment on her needed medication surely is quicker than the vets (and far cheaper).

Breathe, many of us out there are enraged as well. You aren't alone. I know how much you love Pyewacket.

If you feel there is something drifting into your flock. Sanitize cages, your hands. Clean the room, cages with vinegar, dawn soap and very hot water. The activity of cleansing will be good for the bird's health, and good for your peace of mind as well.

There is that possiblity that something carried from your sister's flock to yours. wildbill has posted about flock contamination, and has ways he prevents it. Maybe he might have a practical idea to help.

Make sure you order some Scatt as well. That is a must have in a birdroom . IMO

[Sojourner]

andiok

I'll agree that I don't know if it is psittacosis. But it is definitely viral or bacterial - eg it is a disease. She is shivering, has only one eye infected, puffed up, panting, bedraggled. More likely psittacosis than mycoplasmosis. Both are contagious, both can be passed to humans, both will kill or blind the infected bird. Both can be treated with doxycycline or tetracycline.

Psittacosis is called "one-eye cold" because the early symptoms of conjunctivitis most often appear only in one eye. Mycoplasmosis nearly always infects both eyes.

I had recurrent mycoplasma pneumonia for nearly 20 years. However the last time I got it was much worse - and was likely actually psittacosis in hindsight. Nobody bothered to do a sputum test (or any other test) because these recurrent bouts of pneumonia were so par-for-the-course for me - and the same treatment for mycoplasma pneumonia is used for psittacosis in humans as well.

I could be a carrier for either form. In fact I had histoplasmosis as a child (permanent granules in my lungs) and at some point also coccidiosis. The former was most likely picked up from an old chicken coop on my grandmother's small farm. I don't remember where the coccidiosis came from. For all I know I'm a walking bird plague.

Birds don't have time for us to wait-and-see. I need to get some meds ASAP. I never worried about this sort of thing because I knew you could get chicken meds from the feed store same-day - only you can't in this state, any more.

Whether she survives or not, I don't feel I should even consider taking on new birds - and I was just about to bring home 6 or 8 societies and I think 4 owls. Maybe just 2. But none now, because even if I sterilize EVERYTHING IN THE HOUSE (which is not possible) the pathogens can hang around for up to 6 months, if not longer. And any or all of my surviving birds, and maybe me as well, could be carriers. I don't know if treating them all for the recommended 45 days will clear a carrier as well. But I would have to repeat the treatment in 6 months time in case they picked it up again from some hidden residual well of infection.

I don't see how I could ever bring more birds into such a potentially dangerous situation. Looks like its me, Pye, Bambi, and Thing 1 and Thing 2 to the end.

[Babs _Owner]

Sojourner

Don't blame yourself my dear. I'm sure anything you had in the past was taken care of by antibiotics and cured long ago. YOU are not a walking bird plague.

As Dylan mentioned, you've had your birds for a while and it would have popped up long ago.

Try the tea Elana mentioned. It may soothe her eye.

[Sojourner]

Babs

My sister and her "flock" - a Macaw, a Cockatoo, some Quakers, and I think some conures and one other large green parrot - were evicted from my father's home about 10 years ago.

I had to clean the entire apartment from top to bottom - and then go again - because of the filth she left behind. My dad got pneumonia 3 times in a year towards the end of her mooching tenure there. And shortly after I got her out of there and got the place as cleaned up as I could I came down with pneumonia which we assumed at the time was mycoplasma AGAIN as I had been getting it every 2 years like clockwork since the early 90s.

This bout was much more serious. Perhaps coincidentally, I have not had pneumonia again since. This would have been in the fall of 2007.

So no direct or even indirect contact between the flocks.

My concern is that *I* may now be a carrier of something that can make my birds sick - as I have had histoplasmosis as a child, coccidiosis somewhat later in my childhood, recurrent mycoplasma pneumonia, and possibly the last bout of pneumonia may actually have been psittacosis. I know I was a lot sicker that last time.

Now with this coming out of the blue, I have to ask myself - could I be a walking bird plague?


EDIT:

OOPS, we cross posted.

But as to the length of time I've had the birds - really only about a year to two years.

I NEVER handle any of my birds and I am normally fastidious about cleaning their cages and accoutrements. I wash their food dishes 2 to 3 times per week and soak them in a bleach solution once a week. I never take anything out of one cage and put it in the other. I haven't laid hands on any of my birds since bringing them home and putting them in their cages - and in the case of the budgerigars, I put the whole carry box in there (giant front door). After they came out I just extracted the whole box through the (giant) front door. So I have literally never touched either of the budgies.

So if I am a carrier - and I don't know for sure that humans can be carriers for any of the 4 diseases of concern - its entirely possible that I've had them all this time and only recently managed to infect them somehow.

Or, one of my birds could be a carrier - they can be asymptomatic for days, weeks, months, or even years and then suddenly come down with it. I am trying to find out if treating them prophylactically will clear a carrier.

Even if that turns out to be so, this is a plague ship now. I don't think I should bring in any new birds for at least a year, if then.

[andiok]

Again Sojourner I think you are overreacting. You didn't get your birds sick and you're doing the best for them. I'm pretty sure your little friend will be fine in a few days. I don't believe that you could be a carrier of some infection if it was once properly treated with antibiotics. Plus never heard that human can pass the infection to birds.
Now I see that lady Gould Ian has the doxycycline.
Here is the link
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/produc ... ycline.php
I bought from them and they're fast even here in Canada the item came in 4days.

[lovezebs]

Sojourner

My friend, I think you need to calm down..
Giving yourself an anxiety attack, is not ging to help you or Pye.

Keep her comfortable.
Wash her eye with a tea solution, and go to bed and get some sleep.