White Streaks in Feathers

For concerns related to avian illness and wellbeing.
Icearstorm
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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Icearstorm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:05 am

Dave

Interesting. I would have thought over-supplementation was the main concern, but it makes some sense that they could develop a sort of "tolerance" for calcium.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Babs _Owner » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 am

Icearstorm

My ortho doc has me take laboratory calcium tablets, with pure Vit D lab grade tabs twice a day.

He's a former NFL sports doc. He says you have to have both to properly absorb the calcium....taken together.

He knows I breed finches, and he my used hens laying eggs as a perfect way to explain why I need to supplement that way.

The sun isnt enough for us humans for vit D. And I use full spectrum lights, like you do and those bulbs weaken every month (if you notice they get much dimmer after a year).

I like the added benefit of having the bulbs and the color they bring out in the finches, but just like you dont trust liquid supplements, I dont entirely trust my bulbs.

For birds, there is no better substitute to natural sunlight for vit D.

When I dont want my indoor birds to get frisky/stimulated into breeding from the boiled egg, I used crushed eggshells and a good multi vitamin 3 times a week that contains vitamin D.



.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Icearstorm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:32 am

Babs

Hmm, it looks like I'll need to reconsider my supplementation. Do you think I could eat my finches' vitamins? XD

I have two kinds of supplement powders for the finches: calcium with D3 and a mixed multivitamin. When I was feeding it to the birds, I provided the calcium with D3 around two to three times a week, and the multivitamin about once a week.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Babs _Owner » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:11 am

Icearstorm

There's a myth floating around the forum that finches have to have powders only on moist food.

The claim is that if coated on seed, it wasted because the seed is hulled and discarded. That is NOT true.

A finch has to lick clean the powder off that seed before hulling it and eating or storing it in its crop, so it DOES ingest the powder coated seat. Most if not all of the powder on that seed the bird selects (calcium, supplement, wheatgrass, etc) ....is ingested. Its not like the bird spits it out when it selects a seed to eat.

May I direct you to this thread by Madcat, where she coats her seed in very healthy wheatgrass fed to breeding pairs. And in the pictures the dark green wheatgrass CLEARLY shows up in the crops of their offspring. (as a result of this thread I feed coat my bird's seed once or twice a week in powdered wheatgrass). Complete proof that you can coat seed with your supplements effectively.

I'm not an advocate for throwing it in their softfoods and hoping they eat it. I add to water or coat the seeds and I KNOW they are eating or drinking it.

And wheatgrass powder is rich in amino acids, proteins and tons of vitamins. Thanks Madcat!!

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36416

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:24 am

Dave

Yep yer absolutely right there Dave, to much calcium can actually hinder the absorption of other vital vitamin and minerals etc,

Once per week for non breeding birds and 3 times per week preferably on alternate days for breeding birds should be ample :-BD

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:31 am

Icearstorm

Yep I know exactly what yer saying mate, this is the whole reason why I stopped giving oyster shell and cuttlefish as to me there both very over rated as far as calcium levels are concerned which is not an awful lot apart from the fact that most birds often ignore it anyway,

In truth waxbills and finches don't actually need oyster shell or cuttlefish and is far better to administer a proper calcium supplement as this way yer definitely know that the birds are receiving the vital calcium and vitamin D3 levels :-BD

Be lucky

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:39 am

Icearstorm wrote: Dave

Interesting. I would have thought over-supplementation was the main concern, but it makes some sense that they could develop a sort of "tolerance" for calcium.
Na mate unfortunately birds can't develop a tolerance level if admistering to much calcium :(

As far as I'm aware of the only foods / additives that has no adverse affect from giving to much is Cod liver oil as the birds generally only receive a certain amount of what they need, any more additional Cod liver oil will simply pass out through the birds system and be excreted

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:52 am

Babs

Hi Babs, I can honestly assure you that the very best way to administer calcium and D3 is through the use of a liquid supplement, in fact I've literally just done me weekly liquid supplement about 1/2 hr ago and to me it's a guaranteed way of yer birds receiving the necessary calcium and D3 levels,

The sun is not good enough especially during the winter months because the sun is generally set lower in the sky and all depends on wheather the birds in an outside avairy will be in the sun for long enough,

I personally don't use full spectrum lighting eaither because I feel that the majority of the time they really aren't as affective as what many make em out to be, ultraviolet lighting on the other hand is a worthy consideration as this enhances the birds vivid colouration and can often be critical when birds are breeding but this would be for another subject on it's own,
The spectrum lighting doesn't effect me in any way and when it comes to breeding I only breed me birds in outside avaires during the summer, the only birds that I'd breed in me birdroom with the use of normal lighting would be zebras but there again zebras will breed anywhere and virtually in any conditions within reason.

For many this would be impossible as many of us wouldn't keep foreign finches in outside avaires all of the year round, my birds would only be outside for no more than 3 months during the height of summer, so in reality the use of using the sun for D3 is next to useless for the majority of experienced foreign bird breeders, hence why the use of liquid supplements because its a sure guaranteed way of administering.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:07 am

Icearstorm wrote: Babs

Hmm, it looks like I'll need to reconsider my supplementation. Do you think I could eat my finches' vitamins? XD

I have two kinds of supplement powders for the finches: calcium with D3 and a mixed multivitamin. When I was feeding it to the birds, I provided the calcium with D3 around two to three times a week, and the multivitamin about once a week.
As already mentioned administer once a week, this is ample, not 2-3 times a week,

Only administer 2-3 times a week if breeding,

If you wish to administer a multivitamin supplement then I'd only give this once a week preferably on a different day to the calcium supplement :thumbup:

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Stuart whiting » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:12 am

Babs wrote: Icearstorm

There's a myth floating around the forum that finches have to have powders only on moist food.

The claim is that if coated on seed, it wasted because the seed is hulled and discarded. That is NOT true.

A finch has to lick clean the powder off that seed before hulling it and eating or storing it in its crop, so it DOES ingest the powder coated seat. Most if not all of the powder on that seed the bird selects (calcium, supplement, wheatgrass, etc) ....is ingested. Its not like the bird spits it out when it selects a seed to eat.

May I direct you to this thread by Madcat, where she coats her seed in very healthy wheatgrass fed to breeding pairs. And in the pictures the dark green wheatgrass CLEARLY shows up in the crops of their offspring. (as a result of this thread I feed coat my bird's seed once or twice a week in powdered wheatgrass). Complete proof that you can coat seed with your supplements effectively.

I'm not an advocate for throwing it in their softfoods and hoping they eat it. I add to water or coat the seeds and I KNOW they are eating or drinking it.

And wheatgrass powder is rich in amino acids, proteins and tons of vitamins. Thanks Madcat!!

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36416
Quite agree Babs, well said :thumbup:

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Babs _Owner » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:20 am

Icearstorm
Icearstorm wrote: Babs

Hmm, it looks like I'll need to reconsider my supplementation. Do you think I could eat my finches' vitamins? XD
Hahaha! That thought has crossed my mind too.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Icearstorm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:20 am

Babs

I remember reading that thread a few months ago; I'll have to address the Javas' behavior before I use the powder on dry food, though. They have this bad habit where they fling out the millet until they get to whatever they want, so I might add a seperate feeder with sunflower so they don't waste my seed and supplements. I bought some spirulina a while ago, so I could also add it.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Babs _Owner » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:28 am

Icearstorm

I've never tried spirulina. Let me know how your kids like it. Do your javas eat oats & groats or white proso & canary seed mix? You could trying coating it in that too.

I like wheatgrass, because to me it's something they would nibble on in nature.

Yep, my javas play bash and crash with their millet too. I can see where that would shake all the powder off.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Icearstorm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:28 am

Stuart whiting

I have heard that the only things safe to over-supplement are water-soluble vitamins, as they can be cleared out quickly. But the calcium powder is also water-soluble, so I don't know what's up with that. Perhaps it is also fat-soluble, and therefore can be overdosed.

I think I used that supplementation schedule when they were breeding. Now I think I'll supplement once a week for the calcium with D3 and every other week for the multivitamin, as they should be getting enough of most nutrients from their diet.

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Re: White Streaks in Feathers

Post by Icearstorm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:36 am

Babs

I'm not completely sure what they're eating; they usually eat the millet, but sometimes fling it all out in favor of the other seed. I think they might be going for sunflower or wheat. I tried giving them oats after hearing how Java finches are supposed to love it, but only my society finches seemed particularly happy about that.

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