FINCHforum

Hi all,
I have been owning finches for about 5-6 weeks now and have already lost one finch due to unknown illness or mites . Now the rest of my flock seems to be getting better. Around here I found that there's only dog/cat/poultry medicine all over the place . Nothing specific for finches or birds.

I know that a lot of people in this forum from USA discuss about a LOT LOT LOT of supplements and medicines. I have a friend of mine coming from USA (Detriot) here by April. I thought Id request him to buy some basic things for my finches from there.

Can someone please help me create a small, but effective list of things (like S76 or PESTEX which i read about in this forum)? I would look for medicines for generic finch diseases (bacterial etc) and mites. Also some vitamin/iodine supplements for my finches. I dont want it to be too expensive, since I might need stock for a year or more.

Can someone help, pelase, in making a quick list and also say if there are shops in Detroit for pet birds? I think its legal to carry pet supplements across countries, is it true?

Thanks in advance

ADDED: It can also add to my finch first aid kit & also useful for the gouldians, that Id be buying soon. Thanks.

aero
There are A lot of the supplements & vitamins that they use ,I am sure you will get a good list from the members,I to will be keeping that list for myself.When you get it you could order the things that you want and have it sent to your friend and he could bring it to you in April.

Recommended items...

Vitamins and Supplements...
Calcium Plus
Breeders Blend
F-Vite


Meds
Doxycycline (full spectrum antibiotics for bacterial infections)
Probiotics (for after antibiotics to regenerate good bacteria in finch)

Thanks B Camp and FinchFry. I would request those. Could you tell me where I can order them and get it shipped to that address? And any idea how long 1 item would last? This would help me in ordering the number i might need for 1 year. Thanks once again.

one of the other members of the forum (Poohbear) mentioned making powdered kelp available, gouldians really seem to enjoy it

My gouldians love powdered kelp. That is the only kind I use. I do not add iodine.

I have powdered kelp in some dishes but I also use liquid iodine in their water once a week to ensure that every Australian finch ingests it. I can't watch them long enough to make sure they all get to every dish so this is my insurance plan that they get everything they need.

Oh, great. So its liquid iodine! I think it makes sense since my finches never empty their dishes, especially egg food-most is left over . but the zebs enjoy water though. I guess I'll take liquid iodine, may be two 8oz bottles. is that too much or too expensive and will it last a more than a year?

I think 1 x 8 oz bottle of liquid iodine should last you over a year. If you don't get more Australian birds - then it should last way over 1 year.

My ratio of iodine to water is: mix 1 drop iodine to 7 drops of water then take 4 drops of that mix and place in 8 cups (1 pitcher) of water.

I use a pitcher of water for all my birds everyday. But I only put iodine in their water once a week - hence I use 1 drop of iodine once a week (twice a week if I feel they need a little extra "tweaking" once in a while).

aero
I will post some links for supply's, try to make yourself A list you might be able to get everything from one place or two you would save on shipping.These links are some that I have used with good results.

http://www.fairestfinches.com/page/page/4448852.htm
http://www.justbirdstuff.com/
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/shopping_diet-seed.mgi
This link is good if you have sick birds you might have it already.
http://www.finchniche.com/f-sick.mgi

aero, it is very easy to get carried away with the supplements and medications--I know, because I have a cupboard full of these things! A really good diet, with a good basic finch seed mix, supplemented with fresh eggfood and veggies, plus a good mineral mix, can supply most of what the birds need.

There are a few medications I keep on hand just in case--haven't used them, because I really don't believe medications do much good unless you know what you are treating. If you do use antibiotics, you will need a good probiotic to restore the gut--otherwise, you risk having the bird have a yeast infection. It is just easier to keep a few of these things on hand, as if you do need them, it will be immediately, not a few days or weeks later.

If you just have Zebras, you don't need the iodine, but you mentioned getting Gouldians, so then that would be a must.

Be sure to try to find out if there would be any problem for your friend bringing these items thru Customs--would be a shame to spend that money and then have them taken away.

I will try to make up a list tonight of what, in my opinion, would make up a good basic medicine and supplement cabinet, and post it on here.

Thanks a lot

Its good to know that that much iodine can last so long. 8oz should last me longer than a year, which is good time for me to find a good source of that here.

Thanks BACMP. I think I'll use the fairestfinchesever website to buy stuff, once finalised, lets see what list I make.

Thanks so much sally for your time in making a list. Im sure it will be so useful, not only for me, but for many others like me in this forum. Will look forward for you post.

I've done some research, trying to figure out what would be needed for a basic medicine kit. I checked the finch aviary site, and was struck by some points she made. She has access to a good avian vet. Not everyone has access to an avian vet, and even some of those are not that familiar with treating finches, as they mostly treat the larger (more expensive) hookbills. It can also get very expensive to use a vet.

One problem with finches is that they hide illness very well. Often, by the time you realize the bird is sick, it is so far gone that it is difficult to save it. The other problem is that many illnesses have similar symptoms, yet require different treatments. Giving the wrong treatment is wasting time and money, and putting the bird at further risk.

The other point she brought up is that it is difficult to impossible to diagnose over the internet. Most people have trouble diagnosing illness in their own birds, much less one they can't even see. And the majority of us on forums haven't had enough experience with specific diseases to be able to recognize and know how to treat them.

Having said that, I do keep a few items on hand, just in case. I haven't used them, as I hesitate to use antibiotics without knowing what I am treating, but I get a small measure of comfort knowing I have them available. These should be purchased in the smallest size available. The ones I have purchased that had a 'use by' date were good for about 2-3 years. There are many brands out there, these are just a start.

Protozoal infections - Ronsivet, Ronivet
Bacterial infections - Amtyl
Coccidiosis - Acox, Coccivet
If you use the above medicines, you need to follow up with a Probiotic.

The next group I consider a must, especially if you keep Gouldians, but even for other species.

Air sac mites, scaley face - Scatt for a small number of birds
Air sac mites, scaley face - Iverlux, Ivermectin for large numbers of birds
Worms - Wormout or Wormaway

For supplements, you can go into debt big time, so the only limit is how much you want to spend! For a basic kit:

A vitamin supplement - Hearty Bird,
Kelp or iodine or both if you have Gouldians

aero, I've done some research, trying to figure out what would be needed for a basic medicine kit. I checked the finch aviary site, and was struck by some points she made. She has access to a good avian vet. Not everyone has access to an avian vet, and even some of those are not that familiar with treating finches, as they mostly treat the larger (more expensive) hookbills. It can also get very expensive to use a vet.

One problem with finches is that they hide illness very well. Often, by the time you realize the bird is sick, it is so far gone that it is difficult to save it. The other problem is that many illnesses have similar symptoms, yet require different treatments. Giving the wrong treatment is wasting time and money, and putting the bird at further risk.

The other point she brought up is that it is difficult if not impossible to diagnose over the internet. Most people have trouble diagnosing illness in their own birds, much less one they can't even see. And the majority of us on forums haven't had enough experience with specific diseases to be able to recognize and know how to treat them.

Having said that, I do keep a few items on hand, just in case. I haven't used them, as I hesitate to use antibiotics without knowing what I am treating, but I get a small measure of comfort knowing I have them available. These should be purchased in the smallest size available. The ones I have purchased that had a 'use by' date were good for about 2-3 years. There are many brands out there, these are just a start.

Protozoal infections - Ronex, Ronsivet
Bacterial infections - Amoxitex, Amtyl
Coccidiosis - Acox, Cocci-care
Yeast infections - Medistatin
If you use the above medicines, you need to follow up with a Probiotic, or you could have a yeast infection problem.

The following items I do consider necessary, and worth having on hand:

Air sac mites, scaley face - Scatt for a small number of birds
Air sac mites, scaley face - Iverlux, Ivermectin for large numbers of birds
Worms - Wormout or Wormaway
External mites - Avian Insect Liquidator, Pestex

One of the best 'medicines' you can keep on hand is a small hospital cage, just a small cage where you can isolate a sick bird and provide it with some kind of extra heat. Warmth, quiet, and privacy can work wonders sometimes.

Supplements have been covered in many threads on the forum, and there are literally dozens of them out there. In my honest opinion, given that you do not have the easy access to supplies that we have here in the USA, I would concentrate on supplying really good nutrition to your birds. With the right diet, you may find that you don't need all the extras. You also have to consider what birds you are trying to keep. Zebras are very hardy little birds and don't really need all the extra pampering. Gouldians need kelp (powdered or liquid), iodine, or both. They also could use a molting supplement. A small bottle of liquid calcium can help an eggbound hen. Other than that, a good general vitamin should do it.

If you keep finches, you will lose them from time to time, if for no other reason than old age--they don't live long like parrots. Most of the time, when you lose a finch, you don't have a clue as to what went wrong. It is something you just have to accept.

Sorry for the long post, brevity is not my strong suit!

Hi Sally, What a great post . Im sure it was so much useful for every one like me in this forum. Brief posts tend to have ambiguity and may create unnescesary delays. So, I guess long ones are welcome !!! (As long as the moderator does not mind having them).

About the medicine list, I got an excellent idea of what I need to have. firstly, I have a hospital cage, a very small one which i can keep almost anywhere to get good temperature, humidity and light. So, the best medicine is already there!

About the others, I thought of the following list:
Air sac mites, scaley face - Scatt (Since i dont plan to have more than a dozen birds)
Worms - Wormaway
External mites - Pestex
Probiotics - A good one from the website
Iodine Liquid - 8oz for my LGs
CalciumPlus - for egg bound hens
Vitamins: I already have one which i administer (10 drops per 1/2 litre water twice a week)

I do not intend to use anti-biotics since I may never be able to identify the right problem on the bird. Avian vets - a dream for me here . So, no antibiotics. How does this sound ?

Im sure there is no substitute to good food for any living being, same for finches. I feed them fresh egg food and greens/veggies alternate days. Good seed mix all time. I select the best organic (chemical free) seeds I can get around here. So, I guess Im ok in that sense . My new LGs need Iodine. I must get that as soon as possible.

I have already lost one finch due to unknown illness. The rest are recovering from feather loss right now. I wouldn't want them to die for any reason and I hope to give them the best food and flight cage I can, to keep them healthy & happy.

Thanks so much sally, I will post the latest list with the exact names once I buy them from the website - In this same thread.

Thanks a lot once again.