FINCHforum

I have a question .... I bought my first gouldian finches at the end of July. They have been out of sorts since I bought them (I originally thought it was stress.) One pair, the female has finally stated chirping and the male started singing. The other pair sounds more like crows. The female does not chirp and sounds like sneezing and the male sounds more like a raspy crow than a whistle. I am guessing that they have air sac mites. I have been treating them with S76 for two days a week for the last two weeks and the third week that is suggested will be next Monday and Tuesday. This is the second course of S76 for them. I have used a spray for avian mites and lice as well. When they are not getting the S76 I am using Megamix in the water. Is there anything else I can do? They appear to be normal in every other way... no fluffing of the feathers, and they eat well. I feed them hard-boiled mixed with egg food and kelp, fresh greens that include romaine and other baby lettuces and some spinach, as well as seeds and millet. I physically wash the cages in hot water and vinegar once a week to keep any re-infestation of mites .... I am lost. Will they die? I am trying so hard to help them (I even checked, there is no avian vet within 30 miles of me.) but being on disability a vet call would be EXTREMELY hard on my budget right now. Any suggestions?

With 2 rounds of S76 it may not be ASM but instead a respiratory infection.
Check out this site:
https://ladygouldian.com/Respiratory-In ... s-in-Birds

Don't be afraid to call or email Laraine and ask advise, she has been very helpful in the past to many.

good luck

I would order an extra one from Gary at friskyfinches.com. He answered my phone call right away and I received my order quickly (as he sent it out the very same day) I think it's better to have an extra on hand just in case.
He does carry both Scatt and S76. I had the most luck with S76. I found it easier to treat all of my "flocks" water than to be pulling them out and treating each individual one with scatt. Please keep in mind that I am new - Air sac mites are one of the things we as gouldian fans must deal with but, Boy What a Pain !!!
Jennifer

S76 the best thing for air sack mite . Follow the directions and let them bath in it as well as drink it,,, also spray the aviary with COOPEX,two satches to 5litres of water,,, there should be a white film of dust over every thing,,, take water and seed out first.

Hello folks: I have had my five Gouldies for a year and although I love them dearly, I also worry often. At night if I walk through the room, I hear one of them make a click sound. I have also been reading in your Finch Forum that I should be treating my guys with one of the recommended mite medicines. I try not to handle my birds and it would make me a wreck to grab them up and put a drop of something on the back of their necks. It is enough to hang a Dichiorvos strip in their cage? Thanks for your help. Karen

I would not use one of those strips in or near your cages, they are too poisonous to have around birds IMO. The easiest and most effective way to treat for mites is using Scatt, but that does require you to catch and handle the birds. If you are not comfortable with doing that, you can use S76. This is placed in the water for two days a week, followed by another two-day treatment in a week, followed by a third two-day treatment after another week. Once you have treated for mites, you should be fine until you add new birds to your flock. This is why I treat all new birds for mites, so I don't introduce them into my flock.

The strip and mite protectors are not safe

Hello: That is such a relief that I won't have to traumatize my guys! I'm going to check the internet right now for some S76.

Thank you for sharing your information and time.

Going to echo what Sally stated above....

I had an interesting discussion with my avian vet regarding Scatt and Ivermectin 1%, both used topical. It is the same discussion I had with her a few times, both in person and via email. This pertains to ASM, Scaly leg/beak, and feather mites.

*Both Scatt and Ivermectin are not water soluble so they need to be dosed topically.

Ivermectin 1% topically is 3 doses (each dose is 1 drop to the back of the neck, on the skin) 14 days apart.

Scatt is 3 doses (each dose drop to the back of the neck directly on the skin) 14 days apart. (waiting the 3 weeks between doses as directed leaves to much room for gaps and a breakthrough infestations. Vets are starting to see to many reoccurring issues with just one treatment or to much time lapse between doses).

Treatment: is 3 doses total, each dose 14 days apart, each dose is one drop of Ivermectin 1% or Scatt to the back of the neck. Wet the feathers lightly to part the feathers, exposing the skin/area for application. Using the back of the neck as the application site prevents the bird from preening/grooming the treatment off. You can also apply under the wing.

Topical also is preferred by vets since it bypasses the liver and stomach unlike oral medications. The less chemicals you put through the liver the better.

Do not let your bird(s) bathe for 2 to 3 days after each treatment.

The point to the multiple treatments is to ensure that all phases and the mites are eradicated. Doing one treatment is not sufficient. ASM does not live dormant in the birds, problem that they see is that treatments were not repeated within the 6 weeks to catch/stop the full life cycle of the mites so that is why breeders/owners have reoccurring issues with ASM.

By the time your bird can be heard clicking they have had ASM for a while already, it does not just happen. (Feather mites and ASM requires you also clean and treat the environment the birds live in. If one bird in the flock presents with ASM or mites you must treat all birds that shared the same flight/cage. Scaly leg and beak require general cleaning like the maintenance you do weekly, wiping down perches.

Doing a preventative in quarantine for the 6 week course of 3 doses then introducing the birds into a clean flock (previously treated) she said you should not see ASM/mites in your flock unless you introduce a bird into your flock that has it and has not been quarantined or treated with a preventative first, so do not be in a rush to add a new bird to your flight/aviary without quarantine and preventatives.

There is not a need to do preventatives several times a year if you do the 3 doses as described above.

Mites are becoming resistant to products used due to over use, much like bacteria resistant to antibiotics given as a preventative. Doing a preventative in quarantine is best.

This procedure has been discussed with 3 different avian vets and they all agree on the 3 doses as stated above and no further treatment/preventative unless you add a bird not treated, not quarantined and had ASM....it will pass it to the rest of the flock and you will need to start again dosing everyone.

The birds are not born with ASM mites either, contrary to what we have been told in the past.

I did ask about the oral s76 for bigger flocks it can be used but vets prefer the topical treatments. You need to do this treatment as directed on the bottle while the bird is in quarantine. I would do the 3 to 4 week course to ensure you have a "clean" bird before adding it to your flock.

directions for s76 Treatment
Initial treatment is S76 painted on daily for 7 days and in the drinking water for 2 days. Apply undiluted S76 directly to the affected skin using a Q-tip each day for one week and S76 in drinking water for 2 days. Repeat S76 drinking water treatment and one application topically each week until all signs of mite have disappeared (recovery varies from 2-8 weeks depending upon the severity of infection.) Usual cure time is 3-4 weeks with mild infestations. Keep away from eyes & nostrils.

Topical Scatt, mine came with a glass eyedropper

Topical Ivermectin 1% can be bought at the feed store or ordered on line you will need a needle syringe to draw it up and apply, careful not to stick the bird with the needle.

ASM is not limited to just gouldians.... any bird can get it including hookbills.

debbie276 wrote: With 2 rounds of S76 it may not be ASM but instead a respiratory infection.
Check out this site:
https://ladygouldian.com/Respiratory-In ... s-in-Birds

Don't be afraid to call or email Laraine and ask advise, she has been very helpful in the past to many.

good luck

I agree... after the first dose you should not hear clicking... clicking can also be yeast clogging the airways, trichomonas (with both the birds can be seen gasping for air) or it can be upper respiratory as Debbie mentioned.

Everyone quickly assumes clicking is ASM.

cindy wrote: directions for s76 Treatment
Initial treatment is S76 painted on daily for 7 days and in the drinking water for 2 days. Apply undiluted S76 directly to the affected skin using a Q-tip each day for one week and S76 in drinking water for 2 days. Repeat S76 drinking water treatment and one application topically each week until all signs of mite have disappeared (recovery varies from 2-8 weeks depending upon the severity of infection.) Usual cure time is 3-4 weeks with mild infestations. Keep away from eyes & nostrils.

These are the directions for treatment for SCALY LEG MITES, not ASM. For ASM, you do not paint S76 on any area, you are treating in the water only, two days in a row, for three weeks in a row.

Be sure to read the directions before administering any medication to your birds.

yes..true they do need to change that... it is for water only.

Sally wrote:

cindy wrote: directions for s76 Treatment
Initial treatment is S76 painted on daily for 7 days and in the drinking water for 2 days. Apply undiluted S76 directly to the affected skin using a Q-tip each day for one week and S76 in drinking water for 2 days. Repeat S76 drinking water treatment and one application topically each week until all signs of mite have disappeared (recovery varies from 2-8 weeks depending upon the severity of infection.) Usual cure time is 3-4 weeks with mild infestations. Keep away from eyes & nostrils.

These are the directions for treatment for SCALEY LEG MITES, not ASM. For ASM, you do not paint S76 on any area, you are treating in the water only, two days in a row, for three weeks in a row.

Be sure to read the directions before administering any medication to your birds.

the directions above are right in the description discussing ASM transmission... Sally is correct in saying it does not get painted on (site is incorrect) Painting it on is more for scaly leg as they explain it further down the page... http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_s76.php

Directions for Iverlux .... from glamgouldians.com DIRECTIONS FOR USE:
For individual birds, apply one drop of IVERLUX to the skin of the neck each day for five days. Add ½ teaspoon of IVERLUX to one quart of clean drinking water for small bird flocks (finches, canaries) OR add one teaspoon to one quart of clean drinking water for large bird flocks (greys, mynahs) for two consecutive days. Repeat for three weeks in a row.

Sally wrote:

cindy wrote: directions for s76 Treatment
Initial treatment is S76 painted on daily for 7 days and in the drinking water for 2 days. Apply undiluted S76 directly to the affected skin using a Q-tip each day for one week and S76 in drinking water for 2 days. Repeat S76 drinking water treatment and one application topically each week until all signs of mite have disappeared (recovery varies from 2-8 weeks depending upon the severity of infection.) Usual cure time is 3-4 weeks with mild infestations. Keep away from eyes & nostrils.

These are the directions for treatment for SCALY LEG MITES, not ASM. For ASM, you do not paint S76 on any area, you are treating in the water only, two days in a row, for three weeks in a row.

Be sure to read the directions before administering any medication to your birds.

I should have said read the directions on the bottle/container before administering. Vendor websites don't always keep up with changes in recommendations, so you can be getting outdated information from them. Better to go directly to the manufacturer's website.

I also found with some of the medications they have changed the concentration so dosing might be different too.