FINCHforum

Hi,

I am not sure if you read my previous posts, but to make a story short I finally received my order from LGF for the S76 which I was desperately waiting for. In addition, I have also ordered IoFord however there was a mix up and Dufoplus was sent in place of it. Now, after reading some of the posts here, I learned some terrible things about Dr. Rob's products, ranging from being ineffective (S76) to even deadly according to some. My question is, I currently have two products belonging to Dr. Rob: S76 (250ML) and Dufoplus (100ML) which I have paid over $120 for including shipping, should I still use them or simply toss them?

I currently have Iverlux which I am using to treat ASM, so I am fine for now. However, I am not even sure what Dufoplus does or why/when to use it, so I could careless about it. Any comments are welcome.

Thanks!

I don't know what you herd bad about S76 but I use every 3 or 4 months as do a lot of other members. Don't know about the dufoplus as have never used or even know what its for but if it came from LGF I would use for the stated illness or treatment,don't throw them away

Dufo plus is a bird vitamin. It can stay effective in the water for a few days where as with most they need to be replace daily. However I change water daily but I guess if you were going away for a weekend it would then be very useful. I also remember reading that it enhances color in Lady Goulds and parakeets.

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that Iverlux and s76 are the same thing. So I'm not certain why you'd order s76 if you had Iverlux?

I believe to really be effective you need to use the Iverlux topically.
One drop under the wing directly on the skin for 5 consecutive days, and then I would repeat that in 3 weeks.

In some instances I know individuals will repeat it again in another three weeks - but I have never done this or needed to.

I prefer SCATT, simply because it's one drop one day, and then I repeat again in 3 weeks; rather than 5 drops over 5 days (the catching and dosing them would get stressful for me AND the birds).

I don't know anything about Dr. Rob's products other than the negative things I have heard about the majority of them.
From what I understand Megamix is good, but is nothing but Citric Acid, which is a lot less expensive to buy; and I guess the KD Water Cleaner is good too, but is apparently identical to Virkon-S which also a lot less expensive.

B CAMP wrote:I don't know what you herd bad about S76 but I use every 3 or 4 months as do a lot of other members. Don't know about the dufoplus as have never used or even know what its for but if it came from LGF I would use for the stated illness or treatment,don't throw them away

I read it in this post: http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1847

That for preventive treatments, S76 is sufficient, but for actually treating infected birds it is ineffective.

Iverlux can also be used in the drinking water. Not just topically.

JohnBoy wrote:Iverlux can also be used in the drinking water. Not just topically.

Yes - I just do not think it is as effective this way.
Putting it in the drinking water is obviously diluting it, and you have no way of knowing exactly how it dilutes or suspends in the water, to know for sure the bird is getting an accurate dose when they drink.

Also, since most Gouldians drink 80-90% of their water first thing in the AM, and any medications in the water lose their potency over a period of hours, unless you medicate first thing in the morning at dawn, and perhaps after the birds have eaten some, it is hard to know the birds get a good drink of the fully potent meds.

I have tried iverlux in the water, and I did not feel it was as effective as using it topically, but that is just my own experience :\

I've never had to use it so far. But I have it on hand in case I do. Glad to know that topically is better. I just wanted to clarify that it could be used both ways.

kouma, I went back and read that whole thread--had forgotten all about that one. That was almost two years ago.

I wouldn't get too concerned at this time. Many members of this forum are using S76 with no problems, also the Iverlux from Morning Bird, and SCATT from Vetafarm. I don't know about the dufoplus. I would continue with what you are doing.

I'm sure you noticed already, but that thread you referred to was started by H2015, who is in Dubai, UAE, like you. Too bad you couldn't get in touch with each other. You might try sending a PM to H2015 and see if you get a response.

Actually, just wanted to add some input. Have a bout of ASM ongoing right now. Have s76 and used it... worthless. Ordered Scatt and its in the mail. Seriously feel like i wasted 17 dollars on my s76. It did nothing for the clicking. It has kept the ASM at bay, and that is being generous. Will be treating with scatt the instant it is in my mailbox. I think the s76 is probably more of a preventative type thing and is probably a very dilute form.

So yah, plan is s76 every 3 months and scatt for new birds and any ASM outbreaks I have.

Well the S76 has worked fine for my gouldians haven't had any problems with ASM. As for the Scatt I bought a long time ago have never used,probably outdated,they put it in a bottle thats hard to put a drop on anything

Finch Fry wrote:Actually, just wanted to add some input. Have a bout of ASM ongoing right now. Have s76 and used it... worthless. Ordered Scatt and its in the mail. Seriously feel like i wasted 17 dollars on my s76. It did nothing for the clicking. It has kept the ASM at bay, and that is being generous. Will be treating with scatt the instant it is in my mailbox. I think the s76 is probably more of a preventative type thing and is probably a very dilute form.

So yah, plan is s76 every 3 months and scatt for new birds and any ASM outbreaks I have.

But there's really no such thing as it being a preventative - it is more of a "better safe than sorry thing," where people administer it (I think) to hope to catch an existing infection before it becomes so pronounced that you see symptoms. I believe in the beginning stages you do not see the clicking and tail bobbing etc. characteristic of, well, basically an infestation. With gasping and coughing being severe.

Administering it to birds when they do not have ASM will not prevent them from getting them once the meds are out of the system - and administered through H2O the meds are only effective for about 8 hours which is why you have to do it two consecutive days for three consecutive weeks.
And if it's not effective at treating an existing infection, then it won't do anything for birds who become infected in the interim :\

Really.. I don't know the specifications of S76 because the Marshall products are very "elusive" about ingredients unless you own them and can see the label for yourself.

I know that Iverlux is a solution of suspended Ivermectin and Slippery Elm, which is an herb touted for having calming GI effects - so maybe it helps the ivermectin be less harsh on the birds digestive tract, or maybe it acts as a secondary wormer, too - I'm not really certain, I'd have to ask Bill to get specific details about that..

Either way.. you can only treat with Iverlux/Ivermectin... not prevent :\
Maybe you can say you can help prevent with SCATT since it is in the blood stream for up to 21 days.. but anything with a efficacy time frame of hours isn't going to do much for prevention :\

Also - if your birds are indoors and not exposed to other birds that could be infected (quarantined in the same cage, shows, etc.), there isn't really a need to treat them routinely throughout the year.
But that's just MO!

the scatt i bought comes with an additional applicator bottle

I just squirt it into the cap and use a pipet

I agree, there is nothing on the market that is a prevenative for ASM. I think what most people refer to as preventing, is preventing an extremely severe case. The routine treatment is for people who expose there birds to other birds, whether it be outside, new birds, or bird fairs. They do say that the mites may lay dormant and come to life if the bird is stressed, sick or hot weather. So they treat periodicly to keep infections at bay.
Slippery Elm is one of the ingredients of S76. It is an anti-inflamatory that helps with the swelling from the irratation the Mites cause. It also acts as a support for the GI tract. It also is a natural anti bacterial that helps with the bacteria in the back of the throat due to dieing mites.
The ivermectin is what kills the mites. It is only active for 7 to 8 hours in the water but that also means that it will kill the mites without harming the other organs for prolong periods of time. With Scatt the chemical is much stronger, dose 1 drop per 30 ml of bird weight.... most finches require 1/3 of a drop...kind of hard to measure so most of the time the high dose puts a strain on the bird's organs, and can kill. You cannot use scatt on birds under 6 months old so be careful with the breeders and young.... remember scatt will stay in the birds system for 21 days.
I use scatt all the time when I had canaries but these were a larger bird and I always used it when NOT breeding or when young were with parents. I now prefer the S76, granted it takes longer with repeated doses but in the long run it is safer in my opinion. The ivermectin is in the birds system for short periods of time. Long enough to kill the mites but then gives the organs a break. You must continue the treatments to be effective though. Also you can give this medication to young, breeders with chicks and it is safe. Also you do not have to catch the birds but you do need to make sure the birds are thirsty so they will consume this medication. Both are great products depending on the size of your birds and if you are in the process of breeding or not. Everyone must judge what is best in their situations. I personally try and keep meds and poisons to a minimum around here.