Zebra hen, maybe sick?

[Finch Fry]

My little zebra hen is showing signs of illness. She fledged her 3rd clutch of 2009 just 4-5 days ago. The nest was removed within an instant of the final chick fledging. She is in the cage now with her mate and 4 little chicks. The chicks are not weaned of course.

She acts 100% and is not fluffed up at all. But she will periodically rest and close her eyes, which I know is not a good sign. She also seems to be breathing 100% through her beak. Additionally, there is always a little clicking noise with her breathing.

So the instant I hear clicking, I say, crap, I have ASM. Uncommon in Zebs but possible. I had the issue with my goulds just 2 weeks back and a shot of SCATT cleared them of that problem. I quickly caught Leela 3-4 days ago and gave her a shot of SCATT to the back of the neck. Still here today, she clicks and open mouth breaths about 100% of the time. I creeped in while she was sleeping last night to watch her sleeping and she even open/closes her mouth while breathing at night.

So, any thoughts as to what I may have and what I should do to treat? I have considered she may just have a little cold which is exacerbated by the stress of 4 chicks that need feeding. Perhaps lace the water with some nv powder for some extra juice?

[L in Ontario]

Hard to say what this could be but I know "Ornacyn Plus" states it is for respiratory problems. You might want to try that if you think it could be respiratory related.

[Finch Fry]

Dont want to blindly treat, can be worse then letting her deal with it.

I need to be more convinced of what the problem is before I try to treat it.

Question: Could the feeding of 4 chicks be irritating her crop/airway and causing her to click?

[Meagan83]

You ask a very good question and I would also love to know the answer to this . Is there an avian DR in the house? lol.
Honestly, I'd try the Ornacyn Plus and see if she does better. Maybe she did aspirate something and could have a slight infection. I have used it before with no ill side effects. It's like birdie amoxicillin. A few weeks ago I called the hotline on the box and they had told me that it's safe to use on birds even if they have chicks. Anyway, keep us posted on your little zeb girl. I hope she gets feeling better.

[L in Ontario]

Question: Could the feeding of 4 chicks be irritating her crop/airway and causing her to click?

I've never heard that raising of chicks may cause any health problem unless she's had too many clutches.

[nixity]

Dont want to blindly treat, can be worse then letting her deal with it.

I need to be more convinced of what the problem is before I try to treat it.

Question: Could the feeding of 4 chicks be irritating her crop/airway and causing her to click?

Ornacyn Plus is, I believe, Erythromycin.
I don't think it would necessarily hurt, but I also do not think these drugs available at chain pet stores are potent enough to work even if something was wrong.

Remember that an ASM infection can lead to a secondary respiratory tract infection after the ASM themselves are killed (dead mites in your lungs you know?).

Also - the symptoms of ASM closely resemble that of a respiratory infection in general. So without actually diagnosing it as ASM it might be something else?

The good news (I think) is that (I feel) respiratory illnesses are much easier to determine and combat than something digestive :\

If I was going to use a general abx for something I thought was respiratory, my personal choice (and what I have on hand) is Spectovet:
https://www.birdsupplynh.com/catalog/pr ... 7f0221acbb

[CandoAviary]

If you treated her for ASM already (they can get them...especially if they are in close contact with infected gouldians) then I would treat with an antibiotic targeted for respiratory infections. The dead mites could cause blockage or infection. Cold be a cold....if that is the cause will spread to the others.... Treating with antibiotics in a timely fashion is not treating blindly. It is what most vets do with these symptoms. The antibiotics would not kill her but the infection could.
Another possibility is that she is in the early stages of a troubled labor/Eggbinding. Definately treat with calciboost or calcium plus.... the cuttle bone eggshell is not enough. Calcium must have vitamin D3 and magnesium to be utilized by the hen's body. These may be lacking and therefore the hen is in distress. A good possibility with 3 clutches... could have depleted her reserves and cannot form a hard egg (softshell) and cannot pass it.
That article I posted explains how the calcium is robbed from the muscles and does not allow the hen to expell the egg. Thus slowly exhaustion sets in. This exhaustion causes napping and heavy breathing. Read the article for advice on this.

[Meagan83]

If I was going to use a general abx for something I thought was respiratory, my personal choice (and what I have on hand) is Spectovet:
https://www.birdsupplynh.com/catalog/pr ... 7f0221acbb

Vetafarm Spectovet Powder
"Spectovet is a combination of antibiotics designed to treat a range of bacterial infections in ornamental birds. These may include: Chronic Respiratory Disease, Mycoplasma, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Corynebacteria, E.coli and Salmonella. The active ingredients within Spectovet are readily absorbed by the body and achieve effective levels in all body fluids and tissues including Respiratory tissues. "

Wow, I did not know that birds could get Strep!

[Finch Fry]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I am pretty confident in thinking its not egg binding. If it were, she would have died a week ago.

As for respiratory infection. Ok, I can believe it may be that.

Here are the medicines I have available...

Amoxitex
Doxycycline
Worm Away
MegaMix

I also have probiotics for follow up.

Random other stuff I have (mostly in sample/trial form) which is of no use in this situation but worth mentioning in case there is a bird medicine macgeyver out there.

f-vite, charcoal, trace minerals, nv powder, water soluble complete finch vitamin formula, feather fast, bee pollen, s76, avian trio, mite spray

(wow i have a lot of junk)

So from the meds I have, which is my best course of action for treatment. I notice amoxitex works for bacterial respiratory infections while the doxycycline is also for "respiratory infections."

I am leaning towards the doxycycline/megamix combo for all 6 finches (hen, mate, 4 chicks) and having it be the ONLY source of water for the next 5 days. Then adding probiotics to the egg food to get good bacteria back up in the flock. Other suggestions? I dont want to buy more meds, but I will if its necessary because my stuff wont cut it.

Fairly certain my local mom and pop petshop sells Ornacyn Plus. Suggestions please, I need to get the ball rolling tonight when I get home from work.

[nixity]

Chris -

I would go with the Amoxitex.

The Doxy is good for chlamydia based infections like ornithosis, and might work for the respiratory infection, but it is a pain in the butt to administer because you can not use it in anything other than glass or stainless steel waterers. It also has to be totally shaded from any sunlight because it degrades the meds quickly.

With the Amoxitex, you can just use every day plastic drinkers and you don't have to protect it from sunlight.

I would do it for 7-10 days, and follow up with a probiotic for 7-10 days.
That's what I would do, anyways :\

[Finch Fry]

I agree its a bit more of a PITA for the doxy/mega rx but as far as shaded and metal water cup, I got that all covered.

I needed a metal water dish before and went to buy one. 10 dollars and I was like, are you KIDDING me!!! I went to the baking section and picked up metal 1 oz condiment cups. 94c for 4 cups. I confirmed the metal, washed it, and drilled 2 holes in it and used a metal twistie tie. Problem solved for a fraction of the cost. I draped a towel over the part of the cage with the water.

So assuming all thing equal except for the actual effect of the med, which would you go with?? If I dont hear anything, I will try the amoxitex tonight and keep it going for a solid week.

Thanks again everyone!

[CandoAviary]

Amoxitex is what I have used in the past and it worked wonderfully.

[nixity]

I would still go with Amoxitex only because it is one I have actually used.
I have never used Doxy because of the poopy requirements for use.

[cindy]

Chris if you get tired of using the metal twistee tie for the cup go to Home Depot and get stainless steel nuts, bolts and washers. They work great.

[Finch Fry]

Check. Amoxitex on the zebra herd tomorrow AM first thing!