Do I have a contagious disease problem or am I just unlucky?

[finchbob]

I have quite a few birds in my bird room, it's only a small room, 6 by 8 foot. There's a bunch of double breeding cages against 2 of the walls and there's 2 flights in there. The room is constantly above 70 degrees and has an arcadia bird light.

Most of my birds were acquired in the past few months, first a blue male gouldian fell ill, he got quite bad but with treatment he recovered almost fully, only to then fall ill again, so we gave him antibiotics for 8 days this time and he recovered again, so far he seems ok. This went on for the span of about 3 weeks, his partner never caught whatever he had.

Next a red headed normal male gouldian fell ill, he is in a different breeding cage and is completely blocked off from the other gouldians, all except for his partner. He didn't get too bad at first, then he seemed to recover for a while, until he started fluffing himself up a lot, over the duration of 2-3 weeks since then he has gotten quite ill, he can't really fly anymore, he can barely walk, he kind of drags himself around the floor of the cage, that's when he can be bothered to move. I don't really understand how he is still alive, I always expect to check and find him dead, but somehow he is hanging on, antibiotics are doing nothing for him. We feed him a sick bird formula with a syringe incase he isn't eating much. His partner is in 100% top health, she isn't showing any signs of illness atall.

Next a young blue female gould falls ill, her eyes look swollen and shes a bit puffed up, sleeping a lot, she's currently on antibiotics, i'd rate her condition as stable for now, she isn't doing bad. Again this is a totally seperate cage from all the others. Her partner is totally fine, in 100% health.

Now my other young blue female is looking a bit off, she is slightly fluffed today and was closing her eyes, but she was fine yestaday again her partner is totally fine and these two are seperated from all the others.

One thing to note is both of the young blue female gouldians still don't have their colours yet, the breeder who sold them only seems to sell young blue females before they've fully coloured up, I don't know if that's bad practice, is it?

Now, I don't see how this could be caused by anything contagious, because the first bird got ill about 5-6 weeks ago and so far only 3 more birds have fallen ill in all of that time, and in none of the cases was it the ill birds partner, it was always a completely random bird who was sectioned off from the others, Couple that with the fact that i've got about 50 birds overall in there overall and I definetly don't see how this could be a disease spreading problem. All 4 birds who got ill are gouldians. I say 4, but remember that 1 has fully recovered so that puts me at 3 ill birds currently. I may also be over-reacting on the latest young blue female as this is the first day i've seen her a bit off and she could just be having an off day.

The thing is, if I move any of these ill goulds from this bird room, they will die for sure, they have it pretty warm where they are now, anywhere else in the house is freezing.

[L in Ontario]

I have close to 100 birds in my birdroom and if more than 1 gets ill at a time - I would worry a lot too. I always separate an ill bird into a hospital cage by itself (no partner, no buddies) and give it a heatlamp along with any special meds.

Good luck!

[trljr14]

I would treat them all with an antibiotic,tom.

[cindy]

I don't mean to sound unsettling at all but just trying to help figure out what is causing this. The symptoms of the red head, not being able to walk is a bit concerning. It sounds like something is effecting the nervous system.

What I am curious about is the room/environment they are in or perhaps were they came from.

Has the room ever had or has a slight mold issue. Microtoxins in the air can be inhaled causing a whole host of problems from respiratory to nerve complications. Even seed that is wet, left to sit under the right conditions can produce mold, some so small you can not see it with the human eye.

Once the toxins are inhaled and tissue absorbed it takes time for the body to clear itself once the mold source is removed. (certain microtoxins effect organs, respiratory and nervous systems more than others). Antibiotics will help with respiratory infections but if exposed to mold it generally will not help.

Please don't take offense, I am trying to help figure out what is causing this. Also the boards separating the birds, is it treated wood, painted? What type of wood is it? Is there anything in the room or house that is being used that could go through the air system to cause such a problem like perfumes, sprays, certain cleansers?

I also included a site with ailments and treatments you may find helpful.

http://www.avianweb.com/diseases.htm

[finchbob]

I don't mean to sound unsettling at all but just trying to help figure out what is causing this. The symptoms of the red head, not being able to walk is a bit concerning. It sounds like something is effecting the nervous system.

What I am curious about is the room/environment they are in or perhaps were they came from.

Has the room ever had or has a slight mold issue. Microtoxins in the air can be inhaled causing a whole host of problems from respiratory to nerve complications. Even seed that is wet, left to sit under the right conditions can produce mold, some so small you can not see it with the human eye.

Once the toxins are inhaled and tissue absorbed it takes time for the body to clear itself once the mold source is removed. (certain microtoxins effect organs, respiratory and nervous systems more than others). Antibiotics will help with respiratory infections but if exposed to mold it generally will not help.

Please don't take offense, I am trying to help figure out what is causing this. Also the boards separating the birds, is it treated wood, painted? What type of wood is it? Is there anything in the room or house that is being used that could go through the air system to cause such a problem like perfumes, sprays, certain cleansers?

I also included a site with ailments and treatments you may find helpful.

http://www.avianweb.com/diseases.htm

It's an old bedroom, it's suitable for a person to live in, no mould issues. I doubt any sprays or anything would have got in there, the door is always closed and no sprays are used anywhere near to the room. These are the cages they are kept in: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Double-Finch-Bree ... 5637aad01a. It should say the type of wood there.

The red head died today, we were feeding him and he suddenly looked very off, then started to convulse, he died as the convulsing stopped. We're going to get an autoposy to see why he died. We're also taking in dropping samples from the other ill birds, even the one who recovered.

[L in Ontario]

That's the best you can do - get a necropsy report on the dead finch and fecal tests.

Do keep us posted on the test results and good luck!

[cindy]

Sorry to hear the RH passed. Hopefully the tests will help you discover the cause. Your taking the right steps. Good luck post back when the results come in.

[nixity]

I personally would not treat the entire room with antibiotics.

Unless the birds in adjoining cages have access to contaminated food/water from the other birds, or birds are sneezing/coughing on adjoining cages (or can), it is not likely that a bacterial problem is the issue.

Though - the goopy eyed hen could be displaying symptoms of Ornithosis which is one of those rare airborn bacterial diseases that can spread through a flock like wild fire.

The only other diseases that are air born are usually viruses, and if the problem was a virus, you would likely be seeing your birds dropping like flies.

Treating a healthy bird with antibiotics will cause more harm than good, usually in the form of thrush/candida infections.

Have you been quarantining your birds?
The way you describe it sounds as if you purchased a large number of birds recently, perhaps not all from the same source?
What sort of quarantine regimen did you practice if so?
Is there any correlation between the birds that got sick - in so far as did they all come from the same location, or can you find a similar connection at all between the cases?

[finchbob]

All birds I have are from the same breeder, it's only a few gouldians who got ill so far, all of them are seperated into pairs in their own cages, completely sectioned off from other birds. I have 2 flights in there too, one with loads of hecks and the other with seven masked grass finches, all of these birds are fine.

Some of the sick birds have been left in with their partners for weeks, even 6 weeks in 1 case, and their partners are completely fine, they look to be in top condition. In the 6 week case though that ill bird seems to have recovered.

Now that the red head is gone, for ill birds I am left with 1 young blue female gouldian, and possibly a completely seperate young blue female gouldian elsewhere, but on this one it might be too early to tell, she was a bit sleepy earlier in the day but she seemed ok in the afternoon, i'll see how she looks tomorrow. I'm quite possibly jumping the gun on this one if i say she's ill for sure.

[Finch Fry]

If you dont mind me asking, where do you live? Have you recently engaged your heating system? Forced air heating systems will really stir up the air with all types of crap that were in the pipes for the summer months. I usually cant breath for a week or so when I first get the heat going. Best thing to do is make sure the air filters into/out of the room are clean/new. Maybe close the vents to that room and blast the heat for an hour so it pushes all the crap out of the vent system. Then try it again.

Another though, if you have corrosion in your heating lines, especially in the attic/walls (where the vent/inlet lines run), you could be shooting fiberglass particles into the room (getting sucked into small cracks in the pipe).

More than likely its not the latter but the former. Good luck.

[finchbob]

We don't use the house wide heating in our house, the bird room is the only room with a heater and we got that recently to warm the whole room up since the small ceramic heater was only enough for 1 bird and we started getting a few who were sick. It also started getting really cold, perhaps to cold for some of the birds in there.

[cindy]

Finchbob, until you find out and get the autopsy/droppings report back I would keep the ones that fell ill or were in with the male separate and not place them in cages with the others that are healthy just in case you are dealing with something that can spread. If it is a virus or bateria the ones that look healthy can be carriers without showing signs of illness.

Let us know the findings. Hope the ones that are ill get better fast and you find out soon.

[MLaRue]

I don't think this is a viral problem if some of the sick have survived 6 weeks with a partner that didn't become ill or die. Viral is usually quick and swift.

If only the Gouldians are getting sick I would start asking myself questions. The breeder you are getting the Gouldians from - are they offering any advice? Why sell them before they are colored? Have you seen their birds and their set up?

Do you treat your flock with any preventative meds - like Scatt, Ronivet, Worm meds? Since the birds are staying ill for so long I would suspect a Cocci or a fungal/yeast problem. The bird that has the dark droppings that look like blood - this isn't good and is usually the first signs of a really bad problem. As in internal bleeding... Are her poops still like this now?

[finchbob]

I don't think this is a viral problem if some of the sick have survived 6 weeks with a partner that didn't become ill or die. Viral is usually quick and swift.

If only the Gouldians are getting sick I would start asking myself questions. The breeder you are getting the Gouldians from - are they offering any advice? Why sell them before they are colored? Have you seen their birds and their set up?

Do you treat your flock with any preventative meds - like Scatt, Ronivet, Worm meds? Since the birds are staying ill for so long I would suspect a Cocci or a fungal/yeast problem. The bird that has the dark droppings that look like blood - this isn't good and is usually the first signs of a really bad problem. As in internal bleeding... Are her poops still like this now?

No, it seems this was a one off, which appeared on the first day of her getting really ill, she appears to be a bit better now and i've still not seen any more like that. This is a young bird and she may have breed with a male, i'm not sure, but I saw her and the male often in the nestbox before I deciced to removed it to try to stop them breeding.

[finchbob]

The 2nd female blue who started to look down a bit looks to be better, it only lasted a couple of days, she looks completely better now. The other one looks better too, still looks a little ruffled but she's always awake and active now. The blue gould who first got ill about 6 weeks ago is still looking good, I worry about him because he did recover but then got ill again, then recovered again, he has been ok for over a week now.