Treating my new yellow-backed gould

[JohnBoy]

I need to start the ASM treatment today. I have morning bird Iverlux. It gives you the option of putting the meds in water or applying to the neck. Which method is the preferred one? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of both methods?

[dfcauley]

I don't think I can help you here as I use s76. But I THINK most of the people who use that add a drop to their neck. Of course that would mean catching it up so it probably depends on if you want to do that.

[debbie276]

IVerlux and S76 are exactly the same meds, Ivermectin 0.8 g/L and slippery elm. A drop on the neck gaurantees that they got the dose but added to the water may be easier to do for you depending on your set up and how many birds you are doing.
Can't be more help because I use Scatt, sorry.

[JohnBoy]

IVerlux and S76 are exactly the same meds, Ivermectin 0.8 g/L and slippery elm. A drop on the neck gaurantees that they got the dose but added to the water may be easier to do for you depending on your set up and how many birds you are doing.
Can't be more help because I use Scatt, sorry.

Its just the one bird so I guess the neck would be the best way. Are there any side effects from the treatment? Is it absolutely safe?

[debbie276]

I believe the Ivermectin is only active for 7-8 hours so I would think the danger of side effects would be very small.
Not sure any poison (which it is) would be "absolutely" safe, but the air sac mites would be a great threat then the medication.

[nixity]

The disadvantage to doing it on the skin is you have to do it for five consecutive days. I would then suggest repeating this in 2-3 weeks to make sure you get the full life cycle.

In the water, it's 2 consecutive days for three consecutive weeks, and then I'd suggest repeating THIS again three weeks after the last dose.
So the disadvantage to using it in the water is two fold for me - it is a lot more time consuming, and you can not guarantee the bird is getting the proper dosage since it is diluted. The idea is that it should mix well with water, but I find the only way to guarantee proper administration is to remove all water at the end of the day, mix it up fresh, and offer the fresh mixed meds immediately first thing in the am.

I still feel like applying it to the skin is more effective though.
This is also why I prefer SCATT

[CandoAviary]

I have used all of the above remedies for control of ASM.
When I bred canaries I used Scatt. With smaller birds I like the ivermectin, either S76 or iverlux or ABBA ivermectin... it's all the same. Commonly used as a heartworm preventitive for dogs and a cattle wormer.

Scatt contains the chemical Moxydectin and should NOT be used on birds under 6 months or breeding or rearing birds. It also stays in the bloodstream for 3 weeks or so. So treatment should be done well in advanced of breeding.
Iverlux is safe to use at any time and at any age. Even when parents are feeding chicks, or fledglings.

I usually treat my flocks every 4 months and in this way Have no ASM problems. Most birds do come across ASM so a periodical cleansing keeps the birds from suffering any permanet damage from the mites. Much like a dog gets fleas.... Fleas can make the dog very sick if left untreated. You flea treat the dog to rid of the pest. Of course the dog will get the fleas again...if it comes into contact again with the fleas...so a periodic treatment program or as some people like to think a preventitive... Though the only way to prevent the ASM is to not bring it in in the first place. So it is actually a treatment.
I remove the waters at nightfall. Gouldians drink 50% of their water consumption at daybreak. I put a small abount of the mix in the drinkers and let them drink for several hours from this. I then remove them again, refill with fresh and rehang for the remaider of the day. Iverlux is only viable for a few hours to 8 in water. I repeat this for 2 days...sometimes 3. I do it for 3 weeks in a row.

If you go the route of placing the iverlux on the neck, no more than 1 drop. Iverlux is a poison.
If you use Scatt, the moxydectin, the dosage is 1 drop per 30 gram weight of the bird. Gouldians usually weigh between 10 and 16 grams..... so 1/3 drop required. Canaries are larger birds and I had no problems with treating them with one drop. However...and it may have been a coincidence, but I once treated a newly aquired bird with scatt and it died from a seizure like death within the hour. Maybe the drop was too big? Maybe something totally unrelated killed it? I have never had a death with the iverlux, though I have only applied it to the water and not the neck.
You just have to use the treatment you find most convienent and comfortable with. Any treatment is far better than ASM. Also, all finches can get them, it is just that the gouldian and canaries are the most sensitive.

[nixity]

Gouldians usually weigh between 10 and 16 grams..... so 1/3 drop required.

Candace do you weigh your birds often? lol
I would consider a 10g gouldian to be a severe runt of nature..
I think the only time my birds weigh 10g is when they are about 7-8 days old..

I think a more accurate average would be 15-17g.
With 15g being small, honestly.

Most of my birds weigh between 18-22g.

I've always done one single drop on the back of the neck and never had any adverse effects (with SCATT or Iverlux).
I use both, I just prefer SCATT

I do not "preventatively" treat my birds, though (which is a misnomer in any case). I treat new birds coming in, but that's it.. the only way they would ever come into contact with ASM is through a bird carrying them, so after treatment you shouldn't have to have a rotational program in place unless you are constantly introducing new stock.
They do not live outside of a host/in the environment and are not common even in wild birds (in the US).

[CandoAviary]

Tiffany...I have never weighed my birds(yet)...this was a quote from the web site...Lady Gouldian Finch.com. Well they actually say 10 to 15 grams.
I did up it 1 gram because I agree ... those are some small finches
I guess I figured the creators of that site.... I won't mention names... knew what they were talking about. Maybe they are mistaken though and you are right. Maybe just erring on the side of caution. Maybe the finches have gotten bigger since that statement was printed. Maybe it is a statement given from the actual Vetafarm manufacturer of Scatt...actually it says that right there on the bottle of Scatt hmmmm... Anyway, Most advice I repeat I actually get from breeders and keepers far more experienced than I. Can't really take the credit for that statement.... though I understand your drive to question it.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_scatt.mgi
QUOTE:
"The recommended dosage is one drop per 30 grams of bird body weight. Gouldians average weight is 10 to 15 grams. This would require 1/3 of a drop. View the photograph below that illustrates the application procedure."

[debbie276]

I also only treat in coming birds and not as a preventative for ASM with Scatt, in the 10+ years I've been breeding gouldians I've never had air sac mites show up in my aviaries. Have never weighed my birds and use a drop directly from the bottle, sometimes more if I'm shaky that day. lol Have never had a problem with overdosing.
I personally have seen some mighty big gouldians lately, wonder if the breeding stock is improving. I do know that the information on ladygouldianfinch.com is a bit outdated and the author is working on updating it all, though it is still a very good place to get information.
It all boils down to what works in your situation and what your more comfortable with. I'm glad we have a choice between different products and are not stuck with just one.

[CandoAviary]

I have scatt, iverlux, S76 and a half full bottle of ivermectin in my Medical fridge.... I agree more choices the better Of course I have other birds besides finches...
Actullay I believe the Lady Gouldian Finch site simply quotes the Vetafarm recommendations on the bottle. Can't set yourself up for liability stating something other than the manufacturer

Maybe in the south ASM are more prevalent. Most breeders I know say to treat at least twice a year regardless. I just always have. Figured better safe than sorry Though I rarely add a bird to my flock. Do you think this is unnecessary? A waste of money?
In this article, also on Lady Gouldian Finch.com discusses the retreatments or the treatment throughout the breeding season.
Maybe it is just a way to keep you ordering more than is necessary
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... cmites.mgi

I think size wise it is possible that the finches have gotten larger over the years. For one, breeders desiring larger birds paired larger stock with larger stock...outcome Larger stock
Also in the early days I don't think they realized the results of inbreeding and over breeding would result in small chicks. The Lady Gouldian has come a long way since I first saw it in the pet store where I worked in the 80's.

[JohnBoy]

The way we members feed our finches with all the best foods, in 10 years our finches will be the size of English parakeets.

[CandoAviary]

They way we members feed our finches with all the best foods, in 10 years our finches will be the size of English parakeets.

Especially with Cindy making and feeding french toast

[cindy]

Oh you saw that!!!!! My Gray used to get french toast when my husband made it. He loved it and relished every little morsel!

What oil do I use in the pan to keep it from sticking, if I make this for the finches..... Can I use wheat germ oil to lightly coat the pan?

[CandoAviary]

How about peanut oil. I use this with all my stir fries. Fatty but healthy Maybe sesame oil?