FINCHforum

About 3-4 months ago one of the blue male gouldians we have fell ill, this was only about a week after getting him, he always seemed to close one eye, and he seemed very lazy, other than that he actually looked pretty healthy. After a week or two he started fluffing himself up and sleeping a lot, he really started to look ill, we treated him with baytil for a week then a further week of probiotics.

He seemed to recover, we put him back on his normal water, which is just water mixed with avigold, it adds vitamins and minerels to the water, within a week or two he was looking ill again, so back to step 1, we gave him the same treatment again, and after 2 weeks of that, he recovered again.

A week later, he's getting worse again, he also had a lump come up under his beak, we took him for the vet for this and the vet said it was an infection, so we treat him with antibiotics for 8 days followed by 7 days of proibotics, he seems to recover yet again, the lump went away too.

A further week on and once again he is starting to look ill, this time we don't treat him because we've given him enough antibiotics already. A further week or 2 on and this time he hasn't recovered, he's starting to look really bad now.

Today when I checked him I found that his vent is covered in blood, and found some blood on the perches, there's quite a lot of it.

Ever since I got him he has been in with a female gouldian and they're always together and she has never gotten ill of him so it can't be something that would spread or she would be ill too.

So now I don't really know what to do with him, i've seperated him from the gouldian he was with, just incase, I don't expect he'll last if just left alone.

One thing, I did say he has avigold water supplement mixed with his water, one thing I did wonder about is if perhaps there's something in the avigold which he is re-acting to, since he always recovers when I switch his avigold water for antibiotics followed by probiotics, it's about a week after putting him back on his normal avigold water that he gets ill again. As I said, this time is about the 4th time he has gotten ill again and I left him with the avigold water instead of treating him again and now he's gotten worse than any of the other times by far.

I haven' t had any health problems yet (knocking on wood), but I would leave him in a separate cage with some heat, and try removing the avigold from his water. If in your opinion, this is possibly causing him to be ill. There are plenty of other ways to give them the vitamins and minerals that they need. I am sure that someone with more experience will jump in soon, and give you some better advice.

What exactly does avi-gold have in it and are you using it every day?

A lot of these water soluble vitamins can cause serious issues because of the sugar that is present in them.
They can cause yeast infections or problems in the water itself such as bacteria and fungal/mold problems in the drinkers.

I never put vitamins in the water (with the exception of calcium plus, but I don't put this in the same category as "vitamins"), I always sprinkle them on soft food or sprouts.

I would recommend discontinuing the vitamin and see if anything improves, though a bloody vent doesn't sound too promising one way or the other.
Sorry for all the strife you've had with the bird

I agree with Janine. Take the avigold out. If he is not reacting at any time except when that is in the water he may be having a reaction. Some people have allergies too. Every bird and every person is different. Good luck with your little guy and keep us posted.

nixity wrote:What exactly does avi-gold have in it and are you using it every day?

A lot of these water soluble vitamins can cause serious issues because of the sugar that is present in them.
They can cause yeast infections or problems in the water itself such as bacteria and fungal/mold problems in the drinkers.

I never put vitamins in the water (with the exception of calcium plus, but I don't put this in the same category as "vitamins"), I always sprinkle them on soft food or sprouts.

I would recommend discontinuing the vitamin and see if anything improves, though a bloody vent doesn't sound too promising one way or the other.
Sorry for all the strife you've had with the bird

Below is the description from the manufactuer

A unique 100% natural, high potency ‘All-in-One’ avian tonic, offering an unrivalled level of key benefits, for addition to the drinking water of cage and aviary birds.

Avigold Plus offers so much more than any other single product…
More Details

UNIQUE POINTS:

* Avian specific blend of 13 high potency essential vitamins, for optimum health and condition.
* A special antibacterial to sanitize and eliminate harmful bacteria from the drinking water of all cage and aviary birds.
* A synergy of 100% natural concentrated oils.
* High potency formulation proves extremely economical to use. Even the smallest 80ml pack treats 100 pints of water. The large 500ml treats an incredible 625 pints, or less than 6p per pint of water.
* Totally safe and effective.

KEY BENEFITS:

* Helps prevent ‘Going Light'.
* Helps prevent protozoa (canker/cocci).
* Helps combat stress.
* Helps eliminate wet droppings.
* Saves on medication.
* Aids recovery.
* Improved moulting with better feather quality.
* Aids intestinal health.
* Firmer droppings.
* Powerful antioxidants boost birds' natural defences.

INGREDIENTS:

Vitamins A, D3, E, B1, B2, B6, B12, Folic Acid, Nicotinamide, Panthenol, C, Biotin, K3, plus a unique synergy of 100% natural concentrated oils.

ADMINISTRATION:

1. 80ml & 200ml sizes - 1 pump per half litre (pint approx.) of drinking water daily (1 pump dispenses 0.7 ml).
2. 500ml size (different pump) - 1 pump per 3 litres (6 pints approx.) of drinking water daily (1 pump dispenses 4.2 ml).

Oh that's not good, I only moved him into a new cage earlier, by himself, and there's already big drops of blood on the floor, he seems to have bled quite a lot.

I only actually moved him there about 2 hours ago. I was just going to switch him to normal water and there's a lot of blood on the floor now.

I'm trying to work out how they reason this supplement prevents going light, protozoa, has anti-bacterial properties, etc.

I see no ingredients that would suggest it to do any of these things :\
Particularly since no one even really understands what causes bird to "go light."
It can be caused by a myriad of things

Maybe the "synergy of concentrated oils" which is both very vague, and not even listed as part of the ingredients section.

Have you treated this bird with any fungal medicine at all? Only Baytril?

Are all your birds on this AviGold?

http://www.aviform.co.uk/Store/Cage-$4- ... vian-Tonic

I remember your post a few weeks ago about another bird or other birds having problems? Could it be this product? Who did you buy it from and do you know if they use it? To me it seems to be a common link regarding the blues? Are the blues only having problems?

Is the consistancy of the blood you are finding the same as normal thickness or is it diluted by urine, thinner consistancy, slightly watered down?

Is he passing clots? This can be something he is or was exposed to that is effecting either the liver, kidneys or digestive tract.

finchbob wrote:Oh that's not good, I only moved him into a new cage earlier, by himself, and there's already big drops of blood on the floor, he seems to have bled quite a lot.

I only actually moved him there about 2 hours ago. I was just going to switch him to normal water and there's a lot of blood on the floor now.

Oh dear. I hope he is okay. That sounds scary. Keep us updated.

MLaRue wrote:Have you treated this bird with any fungal medicine at all? Only Baytril?

Are all your birds on this AviGold?

http://www.aviform.co.uk/Store/Cage-$4- ... vian-Tonic

I remember your post a few weeks ago about another bird or other birds having problems? Could it be this product? Who did you buy it from and do you know if they use it? To me it seems to be a common link regarding the blues? Are the blues only having problems?

Just this 1 bird, i have around 50+ in that room, the others are all fine, they've all been on avigold for months.

cindy wrote:Is the consistancy of the blood you are finding the same as normal thickness or is it diluted by urine, thinner consistancy, slightly watered down?

Is he passing clots? This can be something he is or was exposed to that is effecting either the liver, kidneys or digestive tract.

There was a couple of puddles of blood, literally puddles, fairly thick though, but nothing in it. One paticular blood pool looked like it had a chunk of something in it though. Don't know what, just looked like a bloody chunk.

I had a budgie which had the bleeding part but then stoped and died a year l8er

How is your Gould doing? I have been watching to see how he got on, but I haven't seen anything yet to say.