Trying to figure out what is going on with this gouldian

[star]

I have a female young gouldian that I separated out into her own cage because she is laying eggs and has on and off labored breathing. She has a heat lamp but never goes under it. She is only puffed when her breathing gets labored. She is getting egg shell every day for more calcium. She laid 3 eggs last week and she laid one per day these last 3 days. She did not have a nest because I was not breeding her so her eggs fall to the floor cracked and I toss them.

Meanwhile I am treating every bird for air sac mites. I don't know if any have it but I had a gouldian die a little over a week ago. The one that died had no air sac mite symptoms but rather head jerking like his head had hiccups or miniature seizure/ convulsions.
Just in case it was air sac mites I decided to treat all my birds for it. One can never know for sure.

Well a few days after my yellow gouldian died my young female gouldian started to have a mild head jerk every once in a while. Hers was nothing compared to what he had but still that similar symptom. He was sleeping and lethargic and barely eating. He only had this head jerking one day . The next day he died. His head jerking was 3 to 4 jerks in a row often She has had a little of it for over a week now. Hers is 1 jerk occasionally. Still it is ther and she never had that before.

She is active eating and is not daytime sleeping The only time she is inactive is with the labored breathing that is going along with her egg laying.

She lost her voice a few weeks ago. She is on week 2 ,day 2 of iverlux. water. I have heard no sound whatsoever from her for a few weeks until today. It sounded like a few teeny tiny very quiet sneezes. Shouldn't she be getting better by now if she did have air sac mites? Shouldn't her voice have come back at this stage of treatment? And why do I hear sneezing now and not before? Is it possible she is trying to chirp again? I could swear they were sneezes or wheezes though. Her name is chirpy because she used to chirp so much.

Could she maybe have a respiratory infection and not air sac mites?

I have one other gouldian that she was in with and he never lost his voice. He still sings. The gouldian that died never lost his voice either. He didn't sing during his last week but he did not feel well.

So what it comes down to is if she has air sac mites ,why is she not getting her voice back yet, and why would sneezing begin now? If she doesn't have air sac mites what could the sneezing or wheezing be?

She does NOt have any open mouth breathing or clicking. She does wipe her beak on the perch more than usual.

Sorry so long. I figure the more information given, the easier it will be for someone to figure out better what is going on.

I am looking forward to everyones helpful posts and thankyou in advance.

[cindy]

Just curious can a yeast cause this in finches?

Star, when you described the movements of the head, did it involve the neck sort of making an s shape movement. A friend of mine had a clutch of parrolet he fed out and they started not eating, not making begging sounds and if fed they stretched their neck straight up and made a S shape movement. He lost some and those he lost he had autopsies done...it was a yeast that caused some of the issues.

[poohbear]

Treatment for air sac mites can result in the dead mites themselves clogging up the birds system and causing death...See link and read last comment at the very bottom.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/featur ... cmites.mgi

[CandoAviary]

Could be a respiratory infection. Could have been that they did have ASM and when treated the mites died causing blockage of the airways or infection.
Sometimes birds that are not well can die with the treatment of ASM treatments. Iverlux can stress an already stressed system.

Overdosage can result in seizure like symptoms.

Did the bird sound congested? Did you hold him to your ear and listen? Usually if they have a respiratory infection you can hear it in their raspy breathing. Wiping the beak can be from nasal duscharge, airsac mites, or an irritant in the air (dust, chemical)
I don't really know what is wrong with your gouldians. I have never experienced these symptoms of head jerking. Sorry for your loss, it is frustrating to not know how to help them when they are sick.

[debbie276]

Not an expert but it sounds like a respiratory infection to me.

[star]

Cindy
in the one that died it involved head neck and chest. An up and down movement. No turning of the head. In the female the head and neck,up and down movement. Maybe a silent cough? I'm pretty sure it is respiratory related.

[star]

CandoAviary

Up close I hear a little cough or sneeze sometimes. her beak is closed when this happens. I never heard it before today. I feel that to catch her would stress her too much. She is already not happy about being in a cage alone and whenever I come near the cage even to put in food she thinks I am there to catch her again. She starts to fly around like crazy. Do you think it would be okay to catch her to listen?

[cindy]

The s movement I mentioned looked like the neck went side to side as the head strechted upward and made an s shape as it lowedered the head...yours sounds more like it had lung complications.

Air sac mites sounds like heartworms in a dog...after the worms die the dog's lungs have to expel them by coughing, it is very irritating to the lining of the lungs.

[star]

Thank you Cindy

The one that died I only had for a short time and I didn't treat him for air sac mites. By the time the product got here he was gone. I will be doing preventative air sac mite treatment from now on.

[cindy]

Star, I hope everything goes well for you and your birds get better soon.

[CandoAviary]

I would not stress the bird by catching it again. I usually give the bird a once over and listen to the breathing closely when I catch and move it into a hospital cage.
If you can hear the bird sneezing and soughing, I would expect ASM. Continue to treat them for the mites and sometimes it is best to treat with an antibiotic targeted for respiratory illnesses like baytril, amoxitex or equivilent.

Always advisable to follow any antibiotic treatment with probiotics to get the beneficial bacterial back into the digestive system.
Prayers are sent for your little bird

[dfcauley]

I am certainly no avian vet, but I have been reading in a book that I have about Aspergillosis. This disease starts when certain fungus are breathed into their air passages.

It is caused from musty hay, molded seeds or bread, certain plants etc....

This fungus produces toxins that damage the mucus membranes and the bird will shake it's head from side to side or stretch it's neck to try and get it dislodged. There is no certain cure for this only medications for relieving the problem.

The bird will be sick VERY quickly and die.

I don't know if this could be your bird's problem but just thought I would let you know about this because I had just recently read it.

[debbie276]

The symptoms of air sac mites are the same as symptoms of a respiratory infection. If you have been treating for ASM and she's getting worse I would try something for a respiratory infection.

The first one to get sick died without any symptoms of ASM but had the same head jerking motions. Second bird died same thing, jerking motion. ASM will not cause such a sudden death. There is a way to tell if they have ASM, a diagnosis is made by wetting the feathers on the neck with alcohol and transilluminating the trachea with a bright penlight. It is best to do this in a darkened room. With normal vision, the mites can be seen as dark, pinhead size, moving spots in the trachea.

My honest opinion is it is not ASM

Best of luck, hope she pulls through

[MLaRue]

If you suspect ASM and treat for them it is usually best to follow up with an antibiotic to make sure the dead mites aren't able to create an infection.

Also, when you mentioned eggshells. Are you providing a supplement like Calcium Plus? Eggshells are not the only thing she will need to absorb the calcium. They also need Vitamin D3 and Magnesium.
Did you have this young hen in with other males that were older? I find it best to keep all young birds that are not ready to breed away from the older more mature (sexually) birds.

From what you are describing to me this could also be a canker problem. The birds will not eat and will appear to have a sore throat or appear to be coughing. Gagging, neck stretching, open mouth breathing and "going light" are all signs of a canker infection too. With Canker there is always a trigger to the outbreak. Young bird deaths are a sign of overcrowding and or stress (such as breeding) or egg laying. You would treat the birds with Ronivet S.

If it were my birds I would separate them by age and then sex. I would treat for ASM and then follow up with an antibiotic like Amoxitex and then use Ronivet or use it while treating with Amoxitex since you are loosing birds.

I'm not clear on what you have treated with or not or with who - if you have already treated for ASM and it has been a while for the others I would go straight to Ronivet for the whole flock. If enough time has passed since you treated the whole flock for ASM then I would treat again since we are not sure if that was the problem or not.

[dfcauley]

From what you have described.... this does not sound like ASM to me.

Misty has given you some good advice. Hope all gets better soon with your birds.