Two dead hatchlings :(

[Nerine]

So I've been trying to breed 2 pairs of my zebras this year, and am not having much luck.

The first pair sat on eggs for the first 6 days; on the 7th day the male suddenly turned on the hen and kept chasing her away from the nest. On the 8th day, they had made up, however, the nest was abandoned. A few more eggs have been laid since then, but there's been no further interest in either party incubating them.

The 2nd pair incubated eggs successfully, and I thought all was well until I found a dead chick in the egg food cup this morning, and a 2nd one in the seed dish not half an hour ago. I then peeped into the nest for the first time, and it looks like there could be another two or more babies-not sure though. The first dead baby could not have been more than 1 or 2 days old, the 2nd looked like it had barely hatched.

I am not sure what is going on...is it normal for 1 or 2 or more chicks not to make it in each clutch? I always understood that zebras breed like mice!

[lovezebs]

Nerine

No, it's not normal, but not unheralded of.

Could you elaborate a little on the age of your birds, the setup you have them living in, their nests, and their diet ?

[Nerine]

More info:

1st pair: Zebra and Finch I got from a pet store February '15. Their age and history is unknown, but they raised two clutches successfully last year. They used a canary nest, but I supplied them with enough nesting material to enclose it, which they did.

2nd pair: Brownie is one year old (parents are Zebra and Finch). This is her first time raising a clutch. Pinto I got in March of this year. His previous owner said he was 3 years old, and he was bred successfully a number of times. They were given a regular finch nest.

Both pairs are in separate cages.

They were all given finch mix, spray millet, zupreem pellets and eggfood for several weeks before I put the nests in.

[lovezebs]

Nerine

Hi Nerine,

When you say Zebra and Finch, I am assuming you mean that both parents are Zebra Finches (?)

So the first pair already are experienced parents, having raised two clutches.
The second pair, the male is experienced (to the best of your knowledge ), and the female is new to breeding.

Seeing as there is breeding and parenting experience between both pairs, it's possible that either the chicks got knocked out accidentally, or that there was something not right with these particular babies.

At times, parents will either bury or toss dead babies. Other times, parents will toss chicks that have something wrong with them.

As diet goes, it sounds alright. When you mentioned egg food, do you mean store bought, or home made?

Personally, I offer hardboiled eggs, and find that they feed it very well (with chicks growing extremely well on it). I also offer a variety of greens all year around.

Other than that, it might just be one of those things.
If you find any more chicks (who are alive), I'd put them back in their prospective nests. If they get tossed again, I would hand feed.

Good luck.

[ac12]

for #1,
One problem that I have had is bonding.
Why would their behavior change during a clutch???
I have seen "buddies" where one bird will suddenly turn on their "buddy" and attack and in one case kill the "buddy." So zebras behavior can change significantly, and badly.

For #2,
I have not had zebras toss a hatchling.

It could be that they felt there was not enough food, of the type they wanted, to raise a clutch. I've taken to providing different types of food (their regular pellet, seed mix, egg+veggies, miracle meal), so that the parent/foster can pick what they want to eat, when they want to eat. As they will sometimes change their diet (what they want to eat) during different phases of breeding. And for some birds, that seems to have made a difference.

Also it could have been the hen that tossed the hatchling, not knowing where the hatchling came from.

In the case of a gouldian tossling, if the tossling is still alive, I will put it back into the nest 2 more times, to try to get the parent to accept it. On the 3rd toss, I figure the parent won't accept it back, so I put the tossling under my societies to foster raise.

Elana has a point. Where are the cages located. It could be that external stimulus (traffic, people, TV, the cat, etc) could be affecting their behavior. I would locate the breeding cage where there is less traffic and they have minimal disturbance. And the cat should never get near the cages.

[Nerine]

lovezebs

Yes, all 4 birds are zebra finches. I use the quiko egg food, but I think I will follow your suggestion and start using hard boiled eggs. I don't think the chicks got accidentally dumped out of the nest, it appears that they died in the nest shortly after hatching (crops were empty) and the parents disposed of them in the feed dishes. I found a third one dead last night. However, the parents are still spending a lot of time in the nest, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for survivors and more eggs!

[Nerine]

ac12

Both pairs are in the bird room, which is always closed off to the cat. My house (and neighborhood) are very quiet, so I don't think noise is disturbing the birds at all.

After seeing the teeny tiny beaks, I am now offering them ground up zupreem pellets, in addition to the regular pellets. I will also add some hard boiled egg, and look into finding miracle meal.

Thanks again, for all the advice...I have learned so much on these forums since I joined in March

[Sally]

You've already gotten some good advice. It is unusual for Zebras to be problem breeders, they are usually quite easy to breed. Your diet seems fine, though I didn't notice a mention of veggies. Some birds really like them, even eating more veggies when feeding young.

[lovezebs]

Nerine

My usual diet for breeding/feeding pairs:

A good quality finch seed mix, with added Canary grass seeds. I also add wild grass seed heads (which I pick in the late summer and fall ).

A variety of greens, consisting of kale, spinach, romaine lettuce, beet greens, broccoli, cucumber slices, grated carrot, baby spring greens mix, parsley, red swiss chard. I also add fruits (which my birds enjoy, but some people's birds don't ). Orange slices, apple, grapes, melons, blue berry, strawberry, etc.

As for eggs:
I boil them, peel them (save the shells), and put them through a garlic press . To this, I add, pulverized freeze dried meal worms, crumbled Spray millet, and a bit of store bought egg food. Toss with a fork, and serve. The shells, I dry, crush, and add to my mineral grit mix.

[ac12]

One other thing, is the privacy of the breeding cage.
I put a sheet of news paper over part of the front of the cage, so that they cannot see any other bird in any of the other cages. The idea is that I do not want them distracted from their mate. Seeing another bird may cause the bird to want to mate with that bird, not the bird that I paired it up with.

You don't have to grind the pellets. When the parent eats the pellet food, they will grind it up before swallowing, they don't swallow the pellets whole.

I like the convenience of dry commercial egg food, but all of my birds preferred the chopped up hard boiled egg to the dry commercial egg food. Then reading the box, I realized that the amount of egg in those commercial egg mixes is not a large amount.

The inconvenience of hardboiled egg is I have to give it to them 2 or more times a day, I can't just dump out a whole day's worth of egg. My current birds are getting fed egg+veggies 4 or 5 times a day, the most often that I have fed any of my birds.
As for making and keeping, I make 2-1/2 eggs (my wife gets the white of the 3rd egg). Chop the eggs in a mini-food processor and store in the fridge for up to 3 days. At about day 4 or 5, the egg starts to smell and get sticky, so I use or dump it by the end of 3 days. IOW don't make too much.