Hand feeding Red-billed Fire Finch

[a_gouldian]

Last night we started hand feeding two Red-billed Fire Fiches. This was the second clutch attempt by this pair of birds we received in April. The nest box was small and they crammed it with nesting material and we had no idea what was going on in the nest, except we assumed eggs had been laid. We were providing plenty on mini meal worms in addition to seed.

Yesterday morning we found a dead tossed chick on the bottom of the cage. In the evening we found another tossed dead tossed chick so the nest was taken out so we could see if there were any more live chicks in it. There were two, but one was about 60% bigger even though they looked the same age, pin feather, etc. wise. We are not sure what was going on but they were not brooding a lot the previous two days during the day and it looks like the one chick was getting most of the food.

The chicks were fed last night and put in the brooder. We didn't think the smaller one would make it. They both felt cold to the touch. The smaller chick was dead in the morning. The one that made it seems to be doing better today and is not cold to the touch now and is eating.

I have attached a pic. Comparing to the Owl chick we are hand feeding, I would guess this chick is about 10 days old. Does anyone have experience with these chicks and does that seem like the aprox. age?

Any feeding tips, etc. for this little waxbill that would differ from the Owl chick finch?

Thanks, Andy

[Stuart whiting]

sometimes if the birds are not particularly happy with the live live food a lot of Estrilldid finches are known for tossing the youngsters out of the nest, at times they have a preference for another type of live food like ant pupae, fruit fly and aphids etc,

Blue cap waxbills are notorious for throwing there young out of the nest aswell

If you intend on hand feeding the birds I'd try using the same formula that yer using for yer bicheno ( owl ) finch

Just a thought

[Babs _Owner]

a_gouldian

Only advice I have is to lower the level of formula in the crop per feeding. Its hard for the chick to keep it's crop & formula at body temperature when it's too full. I don't know a lot about your species. I've just handraised my share of gouldians. (hopefully not this year).

Good luck with the little fella.

[a_gouldian]

sometimes if the birds are not particularly happy with the live live food a lot of Estrilldid finches are known for tossing the youngsters out of the nest, at times they have a preference for another type of live food like ant pupae, fruit fly and aphids etc,

Blue cap waxbills are notorious for throwing there young out of the nest aswell

If you intend on hand feeding the birds I'd try using the same formula that yer using for yer bicheno ( owl ) finch

Just a thought

We are feeding this chick the same formula we are giving the Owl chick , Nutra Start with some Formula One mixed in for a little weight gain. (the Owl Finch just gets the Nutra Start now) We tried an insect based formula last night but it didn't seem to like it so we switched this morning. It can stand in it's own two feet and does flap it's wings.

[a_gouldian]

We lost the little guy. 5 minutes after his last feeding. Trying to hand feed can be discouraging but at least the Owl finch chick is still doing well and is 13 days old today.

[Sally]

So sorry you lost the little one. Waxbills are much harder to hand feed than other species, as they have a more tubular crop. With waxbills, you have to be even more careful about overfilling the crop, as the food backs up and they aspirate. Since yours passed right after feeding, I would guess that it aspirated. Kudos to you for trying though, many more experienced breeders won't even try to hand feed waxbills, since they know it is a difficult job.

If your Fire finches go to nest again, try offering them freeze-dried bloodworms (found in the fish food section of pet stores) mixed into eggfood, along with the mini mealworms. Some waxbills love them, and they are high in protein.

[a_gouldian]

So sorry you lost the little one. Waxbills are much harder to hand feed than other species, as they have a more tubular crop. With waxbills, you have to be even more careful about overfilling the crop, as the food backs up and they aspirate. Since yours passed right after feeding, I would guess that it aspirated. Kudos to you for trying though, many more experienced breeders won't even try to hand feed waxbills, since they know it is a difficult job.

If your Fire finches go to nest again, try offering them freeze-dried bloodworms (found in the fish food section of pet stores) mixed into eggfood, along with the mini mealworms. Some waxbills love them, and they are high in protein.

Thanks Sally. We will remember that. I think for now we will remove all nest boxes/baskets from the African finch cage.

[Babs _Owner]

a_gouldian

Im sorry you lost the little guy. Sally knows way more than me about handfeeding waxbills.

[a_gouldian]

Would Fire Finches do better breeding in a smaller cage all by themselves? We have them in a large double flight cage with a pair of Cordon Bleus and Greenback Twinspots.

[Sally]

Years ago, I actually had a pair of RB Fires go to nest and raise a clutch while sharing a cage with a pair of Goldbreasts. The cage was 34x18x18, and the RB Fires raised a clutch, then once the RB Fire babies fledged, the Goldbreasts started incubating their clutch, which they raised. So I think in a cage that size, they should be OK sharing, it is big enough for each pair to have their own territory. Of course, a cage of their own would ensure privacy, but you would have to have them in at least a 30x18x18.

When I had those Fires and Goldbreasts each in their own cages, they did nothing, so I decided to put them together, as Hilary had done something like that with success. For whatever reason, it worked.

[Stuart whiting]

Sorry to hear the loss of your youngster, as Sally rightly says that waxbills are very hard to hand rear as they don't gave a crop the same as other hard bill seed eaters,

The use of mini meal worms are ok but the main problem here is that meal worms draw out calcium from the birds and so we normally dust the meal worms in in a calcium powder,

Incidentally I actually use a very good quality reptile calcium powder and has worked very well,

A lot of the time with waxbills it's just trial and error as no two birds are the same

[cindy]

Sorry for your loss.

this may help in the future should you need to hand feed

If handfeeding it is often recommended to also beak dose 1 drop of medistatin 3 to 4 times the first day of handfeeding and times a day after until weaned. Formula consists of carbs and if a baby is chilled or without warmth for a long time yeasts can often start to form, the formula can assist the yeast in growing and can cause issue later. Some use ACV in the formula, medistatin is very gentle on the GI tract and seems to help get the more delicate ones through.

Once you mix you medistatin store the extra mix you will be using in a dark bottle or wrapped bottle and place it in a cabinet, it is very light sensitive and breaks down fast.

The Formula One is very high in sugars and you need to be very careful since it too can add in yeast growth. Good product but use the medistatin along with it.

Chicks that are chilled for a bit, the organs start to shut down, including the kidneys...warmth and hydration is vital at that point. Small feedings at first....very young hatchlings will only have one side of the crop fill at first then both sides will fill as it gets older...smaller more frequent feedings are best so not to stretch the crop out, never want the crop ballooned out too much.

[a_gouldian]

Thanks for all the info.

[Stuart whiting]

Sorry for your loss.

this may help in the future should you need to hand feed

If handfeeding it is often recommended to also beak dose 1 drop of medistatin 3 to 4 times the first day of handfeeding and times a day after until weaned. Formula consists of carbs and if a baby is chilled or without warmth for a long time yeasts can often start to form, the formula can assist the yeast in growing and can cause issue later. Some use ACV in the formula, medistatin is very gentle on the GI tract and seems to help get the more delicate ones through.

Once you mix you medistatin store the extra mix you will be using in a dark bottle or wrapped bottle and place it in a cabinet, it is very light sensitive and breaks down fast.

The Formula One is very high in sugars and you need to be very careful since it too can add in yeast growth. Good product but use the medistatin along with it.

Chicks that are chilled for a bit, the organs start to shut down, including the kidneys...warmth and hydration is vital at that point. Small feedings at first....very young hatchlings will only have one side of the crop fill at first then both sides will fill as it gets older...smaller more frequent feedings are best so not to stretch the crop out, never want the crop ballooned out too much.

Very interesting cindy, that certainly seemed to make sense,

Incidentally do you have connections with an avian vet as I've noticed that you knowledge regarding bird ailments is quite vast