Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

[nofred]

OK. Well I have one of the chicks that has had crop troubles for at least 4 days. I tried the infant applesauce to no results. Then I tried Marvel Air broad spectrum antibiotic for 2 days and it just seemed to make the chick sleep more. Next I talked with a local bird person who told me to add a few drops of apple cider vinegar to to handfeeding mix. It has had 3 feedings with several drops added. It did appear to be slightly smaller than right after the feeding, but it may be my hopeful imagination.
I had manually emptied the crop several times in the last couple of days for 2 reasons. First it was really full and the chick was still begging. But second, the crop had some clear fluid on top of the food. The 2 nest mates are almost at fledging and this older one has now fallen slightly behind in feather growth.
Is this more possibly a yeast problem or an infection? I have been keeping the brooder temp between 80 & 90 and moved the other 2 chicks to another unheated area with cozy towels. They seem to be comfy and peaceful.
Any thoughts?

[ac12]

What does the baby applesauce do to cure the yeast infection?

[Sally]

The applesauce is supposed to make the crop more acidic, which makes it harder for the yeast to exist. I read about this on the container of Kaytee handfeeding formula, when I was using it. The directions said that if you suspect a yeast infection, substitute baby applesauce for the water when mixing the formula. I find that the formula is too thick then, so after adding the applesauce, I thin it with a little water. Before that, I was using Medistatin, which is pretty expensive, and I didn't have any better results than when using the baby applesauce.

[CandoAviary]

Sugar encourages yeast growth so use caution with sweet applesauce.(no sugars added) If you are having problems with yeast infections avoid all sugar which include vitamins and electrolytes, as many brands contain sugars. Many people use apple cider vinegar. This has no sugars and acidifies the gut well.
I don't use any thing unless a bird developes yeast problem. Usually a strong immune system keeps the proper yeast (which is found naturally in the body) in proper porportion. It is usally the sugars and stress that cause the yeast to get out of order. You don't want to kill all the yeast off as it plays an important digestive service in the intestines.
Offering more protein to the chicks diet will go a long way in preventing yeast problems. High carborhydrates(sugars) should be less of the diet when parents are feeding chicks. If you are feeding mealworms make sure they are gutloaded with proteins, if not these can contribute to problems. They may be higher in sugars than protein if fed on bran and potaoes/carrots.

[nofred]

Tried the infant applesauce and a broad spectrum antibiotic and still lost a little one of my hand feeds over the weekend. It was number one of the four hatched. It just couldn't empty the crop and would develop a clear fluid on top of the food. I local pet store/bird lady said I should manually empty it, which I did a couple of times last week. It seemed to help for a bit but then went downhill. Felt like I lost a child.
The last 2 are doing really well and are just starting to fly to my hand in the cage bottom. I can see why you all get so attached to these little critters! They know me as mom & pop and love it when I gently rub their heads after feeding.
I would like a resource for the proper weening foods though. Everything I found mentions "soaked seeds" and eggfood. the eggfood recipes I found easy enough, but what the heck is with the soaked seeds???

[debbie276]

Everything I found mentions "soaked seeds" and eggfood. the eggfood recipes I found easy enough, but what the heck is with the soaked seeds???

The "soaked seeds" is just that soaked seeds. You can use the seed you normally feed them as long as there are not all those little pellets pieces in the mix. Put the seed in a container and soak them a couple hours. I also heard people soak for up to 12 hours. It's to soften the shell making it easier to hull. You could also give them spray millet, I've heard that was easier for chicks to hull too.
Congratulations getting 2 to weaning and best of luck.

[CandoAviary]

Papaya helps digest the proteins in the crop to aid in breaking the proteins down and emptying it out but this is usually when the crop contents hardens/dehydrates instead of being reguritated and then swallowed. (usually in hookbills)
The water/liquid could of been from infection...though normally if this is the case they won't beg and must be force fed. Sometimes the crop can be burnt when feeding too hot of food and blisters will form in the delicate tissues that line the interior crop. These blisters will weep a lot of fluid and their isn't much that can be done to allieviate the problem. Aloe vera can be given to ease pain but weeping will still happen and many times to the point that the lungs fill with fluids.
Sorry for you loss, hard to say why these things occur sometimes. The above are just a couple of troubleshooting possibilities.

[nofred]

Thanks for the replies. I get amazed at the thoughtful responses to every posting.
Both babes are flying! They love to cuddle in my hands when I get done feeding. they also cluck like little chickens when they are done! Too funny.

[Sally]

Congrats on getting the two to fledging! In order to get them to wean, they need foods they can eat easily. The foods my babies usually go for first are eggfood, soaked seeds, and spray millet. You can soak pieces of spray millet, too, to make it easier for the babies to eat. In a health food grocery, you should be able to find hulled millet, which some babies will eat. My last two handfeds took forever to wean, they refused to try anything and just screamed at me every time I entered the bird room, demanding to be fed. I finally had to force them to go without food for longer periods, and they started eating eggfood and spray millet. They will let you know when they are weaned, as they will refuse your formula.

[nofred]

Thanks Sally, that's a big help. I better get to boiling an egg!

[finchmix22]

We just found our first hatchling from our green singer pair today! The baby chick is so tiny and there are two more eggs to hatch. The nest has no nesting material and I'm wondering if the chicks will be warm enough on a paper plate bottom without the nesting materials to keep them warm. The cock took out all the nesting material twice, but the hen is sitting on the eggs and first hatchling most of the day, with a few breaks to eat. Any suggestions, comments, advise??? Thanks.
Deborah

On very tiny (waxbills and such) babies (just hatched to maybe 8 days) I use a fancy toothpick -- the kind with a little knob on one end. -- You can get these at most any grocery store.

You Will Need:
1. Bright lamp that projects light downward
2. Artists Magnifier or some type of hands free magnifier (optional but VERY helpful and boosts confidence)
3. Heating Pad (optional but nice to have)
4. Paper Towels5. Baby Bird Feeding Formula
6. Toothpicks (Fancy is nice) and/or needleless 1 ml. syringe for later as the chick grows.
7. Small glass to put inside a larger glass (I use a shot glass inside a small measuring cup).
8. Baby Bird Feeding Formula


INSTRUCTIONS:
1. Put your heating pad on warm (or lowest setting) under the bright lamp to prepare for hand-feeding the baby finch. Cover the pad with a paper towel just for protection. Nearby you should have your hands free magnifier and toothpicks/syringe.

2. Make your formula. I use LeFeber's because it is rice based and mixes very easily. Let the tap water run into the large glass until the water is hot and heats up the glass. Meanwhile, place a tiny amount of the handfeeding formula in the bottom of the small (shot) glass. When the water is hot drip a small amount of water into the small glass and mix with the formula. When they are very tiny you will make the formula VERY soupy - almost like water but just enough thickness to stick to the toothpick.

3. Fill the larger glass with enough water to cover the sides of the small glass and keep the formula warm and place the small formula-filled glass inside the larger glass. You should test the temperature here and make sure it is not too hot -- it should feel pleasantly warm to your finger tip but NOT hot.

4. Remove the chick from brooder and place on pre-warmed heating pad on top of paper towel. (This helps the tiny chick retain his body heat while you feed).

5. Fix your magnifier to see the chick very clearly under the light and dip the pointed end of your toothpick (just the tip) into the formula. Touch the "loaded" toothpick to the baby's beak very lightly if it is not begging. DO NOT EVER FEED A CHICK THAT IS NOT VOLUNTARILY OPENING ITS MOUTH UNLESS IT IS AN EMERGENCY (like the chick is dying from starvation and is too weak to respond).
Once the chick opens its beak place the toothpick inside the opening just enough so that the chick swallows. (You will see him close his beak and gulp it down into his crop).

TIPS HERE:

a) Be very patient -- go slow and don't feed the chick in a stressful environment (kids yelling, dogs barking, etc. etc.) if you can help it.

b) Never force the chick to eat if you tap its beak after its eaten some and it won't open up. Try again a little later. (An hour).

c) As the chick grows you will switch to the knobby end of the toothpick and then to a syringe. You will know when he grows enough to fit the knobby end and then the tip of the syringe in his open beak that it is time to "switch up".

6. Continue feeding the chick until he has some food in his crop. You will see the food enter the crop and the crop will become distended as it fills. DO NOT OVERFILL THE CROP -- this causes aspiration --

7. When the chick is done feeding clean up any formula that may have gotten on him and when clean, place him back in the brooder.

8. Discard any remaining formula. It must be made new for each feeding to prevent contamination -- this is very important!

9. 2 hours later repeat steps 1-8.

NOTES: I feed very new babies throughout the night for the first 3 days but I stretch the feeding time some (every 3-4 hours depending on the strength of the baby). The smallest ones do best with a feeding or 2 during the night. Once they are a little older they can go for 6-8 hours without a night feeding but feed them first thing in the morning.

As the chick gets older and more vigorous you will GRADUALLY make the formula thicker -- for instance, you will notice the chick starts begging more and seeming more hungry -- this is a clue that he needs more thick formula [just like real kids for you mothers out there]. But GO gradual -- you don't want to give the baby formula so thick he can't swallow properly.

To anyone who is afraid to do this with tiny waxbills. If I can do it -- YOU can do it. I aspirated ONE baby when I first started but I saved many lives and have not aspirated one since -- it IS a learning curve but so rewarding. There is nothing more grateful than a hungry baby bird!!

I hope this helps if you are considering it.

Happy Handfeeding!

[ac12]

Deborah
This is too late for this clutch, but for nest time.
My society hens would pull out the nesting material (coco fiber) I put into their nest, so I taped several layers of paper towels into the nest. This they could not pull out. The paper towel covered the holes in the nest and provides some insulation to hold the heat in.

[finchmix22]

My green singers had three eggs. One hatched yesterday and I found another on the floor, partially hatched but still alive. I put the baby back in the nest but the parents are not going back to sit. Should I remove babies and try hand feeding? If so, how do I keep the babies warm and safe? Thanks.
Deborah

[finchmix22]

I realized the parents of my three hatchlings (Green Singer) were not in the nest for an hour. I had a heat lamp over the nest. I took out the nest and the babies are moving and one is begging. I tried Anna's method of feeding, but used a tiny artist brush. The hatchling gobbled the food! The other is still too sleepy?? It moves and stays curled up, but part of the shell is still attached, sort of, so it may not be completely separated from the shell yet. Here's praying.

[annague]

Deborah, you're doing well so far! With regards to keeping the chicks warm; there is another post (sticky) that contains 2 or 3 suggestions for creating your own chick brooder. Any one of them will work just fine -- pick whichever you are most comfortable with.

Chicks will not beg if they are not fed in a timely fashion -- begging takes a lot of energy and strength and new chicks are very limited in both. I would try to force-feed just a tiny amount with a consistency like water. Wait an hour and then see if the chick strengthens up -- it should. If not, then forcefeed another small amount. Eventually the chick should start to beg -- you will be Mama and it will get very excited when it feels movement that indicates you are getting ready to feed it.

Sometimes though -- chicks may be just too weak to make it (there could be something wrong physically or if they get down too far they just give up and die). So if that happens for the little bitty one don't feel too bad. I wouldn't move the shell from it -- it should fall off on it's own if the chick grows and gets more vigorous.

Best of luck! Handfeeding is not difficult -- just time consuming...