Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Tips for successful breeding and troubleshooting breeding problems.
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finchmix22
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by finchmix22 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:25 pm

Thanks Sally!
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:20 pm

Wow, Thanks Sally! I have lots of insectivores, too (as I'm sure you're aware!). I was glad to see the formula you posted that raises the protein level.

Trying to wrap my brain around some different thoughts -- What is the protein source of the Harrison's Neonate, what sort of cereal does it have (I know LeFeber's has rice)?
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by debbie276 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:59 pm

Trying to wrap my brain around some different thoughts -- What is the protein source of the Harrison's Neonate, what sort of cereal does it have


Ingredients: Soy protein isolate, Hi-oleic sunflower oil, Corn starch, Sugar, Calcium carbonate, Potassium chloride, Di-calcium phosphate, Phosphatadylcholine, Vitamin supplement (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate, vitamin B12, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, niacin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, sodium selenite, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil), Methonine, Vitamin E.
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GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:12 pm

Thanks Debbie!

Interesting -- soybean is harder to digest...hmmm... corn starch, ok, sugar is pretty high on the list, too...

:shock: Works good with the babies, though?
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by debbie276 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:22 pm

I think the fat is really high myself

Harrison's Neonate powder:
Dry Mix Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 26%, crude fat (min.) 14%, crude fiber (max.) 1%, moisture (max.) 10%

Katee exact is 9% fat
LaFeber is 8% fat
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:30 pm

I was a little concerned about the soy -- which I've only heard bad things about with regards to birds (but I think it was related to fertilitity which wouldn't affect a hatchling) and the sugar which I pretty much always try to avoid due to yeast infection possibilities.... Not sure if my concerns are legit ... :-k
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by finchmix22 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:31 pm

debbie276 wrote:I think the fat is really high myself

Harrison's Neonate powder:
Dry Mix Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 26%, crude fat (min.) 14%, crude fiber (max.) 1%, moisture (max.) 10%

Katee exact is 9% fat
LaFeber is 8% fat

Debbie,
Do you use something else that works well with tossed hatchlings who nee the insectivorous diet? I am trying to find the best mix for ours.
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by debbie276 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:42 pm

I've only ever used the kaytee exact hand feeding formula. Haven't had to hand feed a bird that needs an insectivorous yet, that's why I was asking what the protein level should be. :)
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
Pastel (Yellow)
Blue
SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
Pastel Blue (Yellow Blue)

GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by CandoAviary » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:31 am

I would think the powdered egg would be plenty high in protein even for the insectivorous birds... if you wanted more you could always add very finely mashed boiled egg to the handfeeding formula to increase the potein. Caution that the protein is not to high as crop failure may result. Papya will help to break down the proteins allowing the crop to empty properly.
Many of the high protein formulas are designed so that the feeder can go longer between feedings... though that is not always best for the chicks.
I really like ABBA 92 ingredients... I actually mix this with Kaytee's corn base formula... I mix 50/50 and everyspecies I have ever handfed respond well.
ingredients of ABBA 92 green
http://www.foryourbird.com/page/foryourbird/abba92

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:20 pm

Thank you, Candace -- just saw this post and will check that out. My chicks have done pretty well on the LeFeber's but most of my hand-feds (so far) are highly insectivorous species so a little higher protein would be good.

Interesting about the papaya... you are just basically a walking finch care encyclopedia! :shock:
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by Sally » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:42 pm

debbie276 wrote:I think the fat is really high myself

Harrison's Neonate powder:
Dry Mix Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 26%, crude fat (min.) 14%, crude fiber (max.) 1%, moisture (max.) 10%

Katee exact is 9% fat
LaFeber is 8% fat


I wonder if the high fat content is what makes this good for insectivorous species, as much as the high protein? One thing I have found with handfed waxbills, the fledglings and weanlings are much smaller than those that are parent-raised. This was very noticeable this year when I handfed two babies while the parents raised four babies from the same clutch of BCCBs--my babies were at least a week behind in development than the parent-raised, yet the parent-raised had no live food, just my homemade eggfood. Just can't beat Mom's cooking! :lol:
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by finchmix22 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:54 pm

CandoAviary wrote:I would think the powdered egg would be plenty high in protein even for the insectivorous birds... if you wanted more you could always add very finely mashed boiled egg to the handfeeding formula to increase the potein. Caution that the protein is not to high as crop failure may result. Papya will help to break down the proteins allowing the crop to empty properly.
Many of the high protein formulas are designed so that the feeder can go longer between feedings... though that is not always best for the chicks.
I really like ABBA 92 ingredients... I actually mix this with Kaytee's corn base formula... I mix 50/50 and everyspecies I have ever handfed respond well.
ingredients of ABBA 92 green
http://www.foryourbird.com/page/foryourbird/abba92


Candace,
How do you add papaya? You mean fresh or another form of it. I am still trying to figure out what people find works best with them when they are newborn and when they are fledges. Any thoughts?
Deborah
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:44 pm

Sally, I've noticed the same developmental lag with my hand feds -- :? What is it from and why can't we correct that? I do notice that they usually end up about the same size once they're full grown but why the growth lag otherwise?? It has to be the formula because the parent birds are feeding the eggfood while we give baby bird formula -- I think I will try powdered egg with the handfed RCCB I'm hand-rearing now... if I can find some...
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by ac12 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:44 pm

One guess is the feeding schedule. Rather than once an hour or once every 2 hours, the birds might be feeding them more often, keeping the crop full.
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Re: Detailed Handfeeding for Newbies

Post by annague » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:18 am

Yeah, you're right -- it could be the feeding schedule too and I just don't think most of us can do the constant feeding -- wish I could figure out a way to get my Soc's to adopt and feed any baby I gave them...
Anna

Lots of Red Throat Parrot Finches, Forbes, Gouldians, BCCB's, RCCB's, Owls, Societies, and BB Fires. Plus, one wonderful 15 year old son, one wonderful husband and two rotten-to-the-core Border Terriers.

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