Tiny runt

Tips for successful breeding and troubleshooting breeding problems.
ann
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Tiny runt

Post by ann » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:25 am

My babies hatched on Jan. 24, so they are a little over 2 weeks old. This was the second clutch for the parents. One of the babies was a tiny bit smaller, and he just isn't growing. They both fell (or were pushed) out of the nest today, so I took this photo.

If there anything I can do for the little guy? This is killing me, to watch this tiny bird not getting any bigger.
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2 owls
2 red-faced parrot finches
1 parrot finch hybrid
4 societies
7 gouldians
2 canaries
2 cocker spaniels

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MiaCarter
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by MiaCarter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:56 am

ann -- Woah.
That's a HUGE differential.

This is called failure to thrive. It can occur for many reasons.

Sometimes, they get an infection or injury early on and they spend resources healing instead of growing, putting them way behind developmentally.

Most common is failure to thrive due to larger, more dominant siblings who get more than their fair share of food.
The more siblings there are, the more likely this is to occur.
It's hard to tell, but it doesn't look like he's got a full crop so that's consistent with not getting enough food.

I would start supplementing him with handfeeding formula right away. You can get Kaytee Exact bird formula at pet shops like Petco and Petsmart. (It's not the best one out there, but it will work for now. I wouldn't wait for something to arrive in the mail.)

He'd need the formula at pudding consistency.
You could feed him by dipping a toothpick into the formula. (The type with a flat end. Or you can use a normal one and cut off a sharp end and file it with a new, unused nail file so it's not sharp.)
You must use a new toothpick each feeding.

You could also get a tiny syringe and remove the needle. Squeeze out a tiny drop of food and put it in his mouth when he's begging. Or if he's not begging, he may bite at it.

There are also tiny syringes with crop tubes, but they're impossible to find in stores. You'd have to order them online.

You MUST heat the formula to around 103-104 degrees. (Otherwise, his body will expend more calories heating the formula than he gains from the formula, causing him to lose weight.) I use a digital under the tongue thermometer to ensure the right temp.
I put it in a shot glass and then put the shot glass in a tupperware of hot water so it stays warm during the feeding.

And you must mix new formula every time. And sterilize all tools before use. (Hydrogen peroxide is usually my choice)

I'd mix the formula with unflavored Pedialyte for the extra calories and electrolytes. Pedialyte goes off due to bacteria within 48 hours, so immediately upon opening, I'll freeze the Pedialyte into cubes. Once frozen, I store the cubes in a freezer bag and use one cube to mix up each feeding's cup of formula.

Here's a nice general guide to handfeeding:
http://www.gouldianfinch.info/breeding/handfeeding.htm

I'd aim to supplement him with at least 3-4 meals per day, but if you have time to offer more and he can accept more, I would.
You feed until his crop is nicely full (generally, it shouldn't ever be larger than the bird's head. It should never be so full that the skin is tight and shiny.)

Are you giving egg food? If not, I'd start straight away!
I'd give hard boiled eggs, crushed up and mixed with handfeeding formula for extra nutrients. So that will mean more nutrients and calories per feeding from the parents too.
Last edited by MiaCarter on Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Humum to....
13 Zebra Finches....and 2 squeeps!
3 Society Finches
6 Gouldians
1 Weaver
1 Pintail Whydah
2 Cockatiels
2 Parakeets

....along with 1 MinPin, 1 Pug, 1 JRT, 1 Yorkie, 2 Chihuahuas and 15 cats.


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Image
www.PetFinchFacts.com

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MiaCarter
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by MiaCarter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:14 am

I should also add.....
That sibling looks about ready to fledge, so once he does, that should improve the situation somewhat.
The fledglings will start eating on their own, lessening the demand on the parents, which means more food for the little guy.
Though once the siblings to fledge, I will be worried about this guy staying warm.
If all the siblings fledge and he's spending a lot of time alone in the nest, still without any feathering on the torso, you may want to focus a heat lamp on the nest to raise the temp a couple degrees. We want him expending calories on growing, not staying warm.

I can tell his feathers are really stunted in terms of growth too.
With the length of his wing feathers, he should have a lot of feathering on his head, back and tail.

Supplementing with handfeeding formula will really help.
They typically catch up within about a week or so once you start supplementing.
And that's good, because if they lag too far behind, the parents will stop feeding once all the others wean and he may die as a result.

If you supplement and he still fails to progress, that could be indicative of a serious congenital defect. (Though generally, the babies with serious congenital defects --- defects not compatible with life -- don't make it this long, so the longer he survives, the better his long term prognosis becomes.)

Looking at him, I think he'll get there. He'll just get there on his own schedule. Some supplemental feedings will make a world of difference, I think.

If you have a small digital scale (they sell them at office supply shops for mail), I'd weigh him daily to monitor his growth.
Humum to....
13 Zebra Finches....and 2 squeeps!
3 Society Finches
6 Gouldians
1 Weaver
1 Pintail Whydah
2 Cockatiels
2 Parakeets

....along with 1 MinPin, 1 Pug, 1 JRT, 1 Yorkie, 2 Chihuahuas and 15 cats.


Image
Image
www.PetFinchFacts.com

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MiaCarter
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by MiaCarter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:17 am

fetching - I've never seen that particular nestling food recipe before.
Keeping that one in my pocket for sure!
Humum to....
13 Zebra Finches....and 2 squeeps!
3 Society Finches
6 Gouldians
1 Weaver
1 Pintail Whydah
2 Cockatiels
2 Parakeets

....along with 1 MinPin, 1 Pug, 1 JRT, 1 Yorkie, 2 Chihuahuas and 15 cats.


Image
Image
www.PetFinchFacts.com

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monotwine
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by monotwine » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:42 am

ann did they all hatch at the same time? Silly question but it would aid us answering. Same day hatch? Few days apart or could another hen have laid an egg in the same nest?

Sometimes that happens too.

Your little one is no doubt been surpased by its nest mates. I'd suggest (if you know how) that you supplement feed it with hand rearing formula. Don't remove it from the nest permanently, just give it a little extra. My worry is once its siblings fly that the parents won't go back to feed it. Keep an eye on that. You may have to hand rear if you don't want nature to take its course.

I've had something similar and in my experience the runt always died in the end either left without feeding in the nest / tried to fledge with the rest and died of cold.

Hope none of the above happens to your little one.

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lovezebs
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by lovezebs » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:47 pm

ann
How is the little one doing?

I would definitely be hand feeding that little one. Looks like he can use all the help he can get.

Everything else has already been mentioned and covered.

My question is, how many hatchlings in this clutch? And are the rest pretty much all the same size, or is there a gradual size difference between biggest to smallest?

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

ann
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by ann » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:35 pm

This was the second clutch for first time parents, who had just successfully raised 4 heathly babies. The little guy had only one sibling. They were close in size when they hatched, but the little one never grew. I started hand feeding him a few days ago, but something was very wrong with him, and he died yesterday.
2 owls
2 red-faced parrot finches
1 parrot finch hybrid
4 societies
7 gouldians
2 canaries
2 cocker spaniels

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lovezebs
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by lovezebs » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:48 pm

ann

Sorry to hear that. Must have been born with sme sort of a defect internally, and was not absorbing nutrition properly.

Poor baby...

~Elana~
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

spsurfer
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by spsurfer » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:13 pm

Hatched same day. Some how its stayed alive. They are 9 days old.
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debbie276
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by debbie276 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:22 am

Wow, that's a huge difference!
best of luck
Debbie
long time breeder of lady gouldians:
Green
SF Pastel (SF Yellow)
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SF Pastel Blue (SF Yellow Blue)
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GREAT articles on avian lighting:
https://mickaboo.org/confluence/downloa ... ummary.pdf
http://www.naturallighting.com/cart/sto ... sc_page=56

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Kelly
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by Kelly » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:09 am

So tiny :shock:
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Jen
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by Jen » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:23 am

Good luck! I've also had a tiny little guy like that with larger siblings in a nest. He was being fed because he had food in his crop, but the parents ended up tossing him out of the nest one night and he died. Mother Nature can be tough...


Jenny

Gouldians, Red Cheek Cordon Blue family, Gold Breasted Waxbills, Fire Finches, Owl finches, Yellow Face & Red Face Star Finches, Lavender Finches, Society Finches, Canary,Rosey Bourke, Scarlet Chested Grasskeets, Cockatiels, too many Guineas, Izzy my 16 year old cute doggie dog, two spoiled kitties!

spsurfer
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by spsurfer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:47 pm

Usually i let nature take it's place but this time i decided to foster out. At 10 days old it is same size as 2 day old. So far new parents seem accepting.
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spsurfer
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by spsurfer » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:16 pm

Still alive but looks like he's getting passed up again. Won't grow even though seems to be well fed.
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Jen
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Re: Tiny runt

Post by Jen » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:12 pm

How's your little guy doing? Such a little cutie...kind of heart breaking to watch him being passed up again. Please keep us updated. Good luck!!!


Jenny

Gouldians, Red Cheek Cordon Blue family, Gold Breasted Waxbills, Fire Finches, Owl finches, Yellow Face & Red Face Star Finches, Lavender Finches, Society Finches, Canary,Rosey Bourke, Scarlet Chested Grasskeets, Cockatiels, too many Guineas, Izzy my 16 year old cute doggie dog, two spoiled kitties!

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