FINCHforum

Something must be wrong with this little critter. This hatching she tossed him on day 1, I put him back, he sprang to life......... and today
four days later, she tossed him again, not once but twice.

The rest of her 6 clutch are strong
(now 5), but this little guy suffered his 3rd, and might be, his fatal fall. He has undigested food in his crop that I have to let digest before I attempt a handfeed. He is warm in a brooder with a large bruise on his head still holding onto life the last 6 hours. He opens his mouth but wont lift his head. I fear she broke his neck.

He had a poop (thats a good sign). Wish him luck.

Yes its probably "mother nature" deciding, however I've been on the horn with another hobbyist about WHY this occurs in apparently healthy chicks .Was this mom who decided who is "sick" or is this mom setting a limit on how many she will raise and culling the rest? It's a topic for another day, but for now, Im laying my head down beside the brooder and watching this little guy fight for life. A long night in the bird room.

Tossed baby in my ICU. Hope he makes it to daylight with that welcoming head wobble!

Hope the little guy makes it. It's always a mystery when they toss just one of a clutch. Makes you wonder if they can sense something wrong with the baby, or perhaps as you said, they are just culling the clutch to get it to a size more to their liking.

Sally

Yeah. He didnt make it. But better to pass in a warm soft brooder quietly, then on the cold floor of the cage with the sounds of your siblings being fed above.

Its obvious this little one was not getting fed like the others and it lacked growth. I should have put it in the brooder the second time she tossed. The 3rd toss is what did the most damage.

Sally, I candled the eggs two days before hatching and I knew all 6 were fertile and probably would hatch. Call it intuition but at that moment I thought to myself "She has only only raised one successful clutch on her own, and that clutch had 5. What if she can't handle 6?" A bit eerie now when I think back. I think Brat is letting me know, 5 is her limit. In the future I will remove any eggs in her nest past 5 and see if this prevents another tossing. Was very unsettling to catch her in the act tossing that 3rd time. Its not a pretty sight.

I know this is still raw for you, but how does a finch "toss" the young? Feet? Beak? Bum? What if you had a nest box that had a raised entrance... would that reduce the ability to toss?

GouldianGuy

They grab them , pick them up and throw them out.

Babs

I'm sorry honey.
My guess would be, that she sensed something wrong with this baby, and nature can be cruel by our standards, but that's how they deal with it. Survival of the fittest is not kind or nice, but it is what it is.

I don't think it's the number of eggs or chicks, as they can and do raise larger clutches.

You gave him warmth and love, and sometimes that's all you can do.....

Hugs sweetie

So sorry you lost him, but as you said, at least he was in a nice warm brooder, not suffering on the cold floor.

GouldianGuy lovezebs

Its okay GouldianGuy, I'm okay. Its healthy that we ask those important questions so we can all work together to troubleshoot problems and help our gouldians be good strong parents. I have to admit failures as well as successes to learn from them.

She flicked him out with her beak, much like picking up a ragdoll, gave it a shake and flung it to the floor.

Elana, I made a terrible mistake putting him back in 3 times. This morning was another casualty. It seems in her zealousness yesterday to evict the chick I kept placing back in, she pecked its only blue sibling and I found him this morning still in the nest, not evicted, and crop completely full. When I removed this second chick's body she was ABSOLUTELY FRANTIC to find where he had gone for almost 10 minutes. I could see the open wound on his side.

I never stopped to think of the danger I put the other babies in, when I placed a chick she obviously didnt want back in the nest. Right in the middle of its siblings. What the world was I thinking?? Im seriously angry at myself.

HUGE lesson learned here. HUGE! Next time I get a definite purposeful toss, I will give only ONE attempt at putting it back and scooting it a bit farther from the others for their safety. On second toss, that baby is going in the brooder for handfeeding.

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. She was extremely upset this second chick was missing. I dont think she meant to injure him and leaving the remaining four, as they fed and fine ( I hope). I'll be checking today for anymore aggression. I will be away for several hours and if anything is amiss when I get back... Brooder is on standby and warmed and ready if needed. You know I will pull them if I have to.

Sally

Thanks Sally, you know I'd do anything for those little ones. Read above. Something else rather awful happened.

Babs

So sad, two babies gone...

Is Brat getting a little to aggressive with the little ones? I know she tends to get temperemetal with hubby, but are the wee ones getting a bit of it too?

By the way sweetie, you didn't peck baby blue, she did (that's something to keep in mind my friend).

Yes nature is cruel! But so beautiful

lovezebs

Well back home and all four remaining fat and happy. I think one of them could use a power boost. Mom and dad are not feeding evenly and one is slightly smaller. Im gonna give him a big supplement feed shortly before lights out. His crop is half full, the other 3 are so packed they are belching millet. Maybe a few more feedings of formula for him tomorrow and get him caught up with the others. Now with only four its easier to make out their size differences. They didnt all hatch on the same day.

He is strongly begging. Which is good.

Tossing is really an incorrect term. When mine have "tossed," they pick up the chick and climb out of the nest, then take the chick to the far side of the cage and drop it there. My nests are made so they cannot just flip the chick out of the nest, there is a hallway that leads from the entrance to the nesting area. So the comment that I have read that a deep nest will prevent tossing is NOT correct. Maybe tossing in the literal sense of tossing/flipping the chick out, but not in practice where they carry the chick out of the nest.

Yes maybe they do toss/flip the chick once out of the nest.
But I find it interesting how consistently I've found the tossling on the far end of the cage. It is like they are putting the tossling as far from the nest as they can.

And I have seen both the male and the female toss. So the comment that only the male tosses is not correct.

I put the tosslings back 2 times, after the 3rd toss I put the tossling in with the societies to foster. However, if the tossling is injured (and still alive) in any toss prior to #3, I will not put them back, but instead put them directly with the societies.

The problem we have is that we do not know WHY the parent tosses the chick. So we blindly put the tossling back into the nest, in hopes that the parent will not toss it again. And I have only seen it happen once where the parents did not toss the chick again. All other times the tossling was tossed 3x or injured in a toss, and was put in with the societies to foster.

Careful with the supplimental feeding. Too much tampering with the nest may cause the parents to abandon the nest and the chicks.

ac12

Yep I agree with the "tossing" not being really accurate for what she did. She carried it in her mouth a good 6 inches onto a platform before she flung it.

I think given the information you just gave me, if the parents are making a definite effort to carry it far away from the nest
(as Brat did), it would be safe to say, if I put the chick back she will probably just reject it again. I don't mind hand feeding in an emergency, so next time they toss its off to the brooder.

As far as the supplement feeding. Brat and Ricco are fortunately very tolerate of my presence and handling the babies last year. I just filled the little ones crop while I distracted them with fresh boiled egg and they plopped right in there and fed all the kids within seconds after I closed the lid. Im quick. I just pulled open the top of the nestbox filled up the crop and closed. Took about 10 seconds. ;)