Dirty nest

[skyjump100]

HI there,

It has been a while since I have been on here as have been happily getting on with looking after my Goudians. However, we have had a little bit of sadness today as found that one of my hatchlings has been squashed to death by its nest mates.

Here's the scenario...... My proven pair of Gouldians who have suuccessfully raised several clutches managed to hatch 5 eggs this time. This is the biggest clutch I have ever had. I used the same nest boxes as always. Everything was fine and I ringed 5 hatchlings about a week ago. At that time I thought that the nest was looking a bit messier than usual but thought nothing more of it. I had left them alone since then and didnt do any nest checks as everything looked great, the hatchlings were growing fast and were starting to grow feathers. Today though, when I was cleaning the cages I thought I would take a sneaky peek and found that one of the hatchlings had been totally squashed, the poor thing was almost flat. The nest was the most poo-filled nest that I have any seen with high walls of poo. This made the nest quite restricted and so I guess not enough room for all five chicks.

So, my questions is: should I have already, or should I now, change the nesting material, remove all the poopy nest and replace with a clean one? I have never done this before but wonder if with 5 or more chicks this should be done????

I have attached a photo.......

All thought appreciated
Cheers
Simon

[GouldianGuy]

I cannot answer your question but my sympathies for your loss. Looks like some nice yellow Goulds coming along!

Personally, I'd be afraid of nest abandonment if changed? I have no experience in this but just throwing the notion out there.

[skyjump100]

GouldianGuy
Yes, all will be yellows with red heads and white breasts.

I was thinking the same ass you that if I changed the nest then the parents would abandon and I dont have the time or experience to hand-rear.

[GouldianGuy]

They're pretty close to fledging, I'd leave it

[lovezebs]

skyjump100

Hi Simon,

It depends on how comfortable the parents are with you being around and in their nest.

I could reach into the nest remove one chick at the time, or all of them, and my parents were fine with it, but not all birds are comfortable with that.

[debbie276]

Personally I wouldn't chance it. The nest looks fine, I would be more concerned if it was wet poop and smelly.
The chick was probably smaller and/or to weak to compete with the others and just died. It is extremely rare if not impossible for them to squish each other. When chick's die they go flat naturally.

Good looking group of chick's!
Best of luck

[ac12]

I would not change the nesting material, now or when you band the chicks. Given that gouldians are known for abandoning the nest, I would not give them an excuse to abandon the nest.

However, the begging of the chicks may get the parents to come back in and feed the chicks, after you clean out the nest.

Personally, I would leave them alone.

The only time that I changed the nesting material with chicks in the next, was when the nest really STUNK badly, and make the room stink.

You could use a larger nest, the next time.

The wall of poo is created when the chicks back up and poop. Somehow the chicks know to back up and poop, rather than just poop in place. So a shallower nest might make it easier for them to backup and poop than a deeper nest.

[ac12]

Oh I forgot, that nest that I changed the nesting material was my society fosters, not a mating gouldian pair.

[skyjump100]

Hi All,
@GouldianGuy@ac12@debbie276

Thanks for your advice. After removing the dead chick I left the nest alone and i thought all was well. i checked the nest today and two more chicks had died so I now only have two left. When i took the first dead chick out the remaining four all look healthy and well fed but two still died. There must be something else going on in the nest but i cant see what.

I have always used these nest boxes with no trouble before but this year things seem to be going wrong.
So far i have lost:
1) 2 clutches have been clear eggs
2) 2 full clutches (one of 3 chicks and one of four) have been tossed and died
3) 3 hatchlings died in the nest

3 weeks ago a friend gave me four bengalese (sex unknown) which are happily in a cage of their own, complete with a nest box which they have started sleeping in but I cannot get them broody at all.

I have tried putting in dummy eggs but to no avail as they keep leaving the nest during the day rather than sit on the eggs.

I'm not doing well this year

[lovezebs]

skyjump100

Sorry to hear that .

It's just been a funny sort of a year for me as well.
For the first time EVER I've had both Societies and Zebras, toss their own chicks. I mean, this is unheard of with my guys.

If your parents are comfortable with you handling the chicks, I would place the babes in a safe warm place, clean the major mess out of the nest (not all of it as you don't want to change things too much), and put the chicks back in there.

I wonder if the kids have been nibbling on the mountain of poop (?)

[skyjump100]

lovezebs

I think you may be right Elana as I think the hen isn't going into the nest to feed the chicks, possibly as there is too much poop and so is only feeding the chick nearest the entrance hole.

I think I will clean the nest up a bit as you suggest and see if things improve.

[lovezebs]

skyjump100

My way of looking at it is, that your losing chickies anyway, so take the chance and see how it goes.

When you take the chicks out, be careful, they might be capable of limited flying at this stage and may hurt themselves in the attempt.

Also give them a good feel, is the breast bone sharp and sticking out? That means they are not being fed, or not being fed enough. If the breast bone and ribs are nicely fleshed, then parents are feeding.

If they are too thin, throw a supplement feeding into them before putting them back into the nest.

When are they supposed to fledge, do you know?

[ac12]

Simon
Are the societies in or near your gouldians?

Societies can be carriers of a disease that is fatal to gouldian chicks.
IF they have the disease and it has been transferred to the gouldians, that is the problem.

Campylobacter and Cochlosoma, or C&C

Campylobacter
• Campylobacter/Campy
• Signs of Canker/Cochlosoma include: diarrhea, yellowish or bright green droppings, undigested seed in droppings, butt pumping, wet vent feathers, sleeping during the day, head tucked over their wing feather, weight or feather loss.
• Usually causes dead Gouldian nestlings around 10-14 days of age or so.
• Not curable, but treatment for adults is an antibiotic erythromycin, "Ornacyn Plus" at PetsMart

Cochlosoma
Cochlosoma usually results in Gouldians that die
• Common in Bengalese finches – as asymptomatic carriers
• Symptoms: debilitation, “shriveling and staining yellow of the fledglings,” difficulty molting, non-digested seed in droppings
• Chick dies shortly before or after fledgling
• Or just simply fail to thrive and dies before weaning.
• Not curable, but treatment for adults is Ronivet

This is why I keep inbound societies completely separated from my gouldian flock or inbound gouldians until they can prove that they are clean of C&C by safely raising a couple gouldian chicks to weaning.

[skyjump100]

lovezebs ac12

Hi Elana and Gary...

You were correct Elana, I checked the chicks and all I could feel were their bones. The parents had obviously stopped feeding them which surprised totally as they were eating loads and loads of millet, far more than usual, so I stupidly assumed all was ok.

Gary, Thanks for your great message as I never knew this about bengalese and gouldians. I checked for the signs of the diseases so was fairly sure that this wasn't the cause. Also, the bengalese came from a friend who keeps them with Gouldians and hasn't had any problems. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and I will keep this in mind for the future.

I dont know what stopped the parents from feeding as they have raised several clutches previously. Perhaps it was because for the first time with this pair I ringed theirs chicks???

I have tried to hand feed today with little success so it looks like I will loose the remaining two chicks.

Not a happy chappy!!!!!!

[lovezebs]

skyjump100

DON'T STOP FEEDING!!!

You will need:

Some flat ended toothpicks
A soft towel or face cloth
Some kleenex

Prepare your baby food in a small container and keep it warm by placing it in a larger container of hot water.

Grab a chick, hold with your left hand and place on the small towel on a steady surface where you can rest your elbow comfortably.

Pick yp your toothpick by the thin end, and get a tiny bit of baby food on the flat end.
Tap baby on top of the beak gently
If he opens his mouth, deposit the bit of food right inside the mouth (don't attept crop feeding at this stage)
Keep going, until baby pulls away.

If baby won't open beak...
Get a bit of food on your toothpick, and gently pry the beak open from the side, right close to the cheek and deposit food inside mouth, pulling the toothpick out gently.
Again, repeat until the chick really pulls away, letting you know that that's enough for now.
Place chicks back in the nest.

Keep it up as often as you possibly can.

If chicks get stronger, they may begin begging again, which may get the parents to feed again.

It can be done.

If I can do it, you can do it.

Don't give up on them!