FINCHforum

Hi
If I wanted to bred for pastal and Blue back? What would be my best for a pair if I am looking to purchase a new pair?
Thank you

spook1

http://www.finchbreederdatabase.com/php ... cies_id=29

Here is another forecaster
http://www.gouldianfinches.eu/en/geneti ... a/english/

The problem with forecasters is that if you have no idea how genetics works for goudlians, it becomes a frustrating learning task.

Here is how I breed for a blue
- Blueback + Green/blue back.
The problem here is knowing that the green is split for blue. This you will only know if the breeder has good records, and bred to get a split.

The general position seems to be to NOT breed a blue to a blue.

I do not have the room to breed for a pastel, so I do not.
Thus I have no knowledge about breeding for a pastel.

My two target color schemes are limited to:
- RH-WB-YB
- BH-WB-BB (this is the harder of the 2 color schemes for me to breed)

To breed for Blue the chick needs to get 2 Blue genes, one from each parent. So a Blue to split to Blue or 2 split to Blue would work.
When you say a Pastel do you mean a visually yellow bodied bird or a Single Factor Pastel Blue which some call a "pastel", visually lighter blue bodied bird?

A note to Debbie's comment.

A green/blue + green/blue will have as one of the various offspring colors a blue.
BUT...one of the other offspring color is GREEN.

The problem is, you CANNOT tell the difference between a green and a green that is split to blue. This is why I do NOT breed this combo. If any of my chicks are green, I want to KNOW that they are split to blue or not. I do not have the time or space to experiment to see if the bird is split to blue.

ac12
Very smart Gary, 25% are Green/Green
Using Blue/Blue and Green/Blue you know that all phenotypic Green birds are split to Blue and all phenotypic Blue are Blue!

Correct in that you wouldn't know which were Green and which were Green/Blue. The question was how to get a Blue. You have a better chance getting a Blue using a Blue but if one is not available to you you can get a Blue with 2 split to Blue birds. There are a few areas that still don't have many Blues available.

With a Green/Blue and Green/Blue you have a
12.5% chance getting a female Blue
12.5% chance getting a female Green
25% chance getting a female Green/Blue
12.5% chance getting a male Blue
12.5% chance getting a male Green
25% chance getting a male Green/Blue

With a Green/Blue and a Blue you have a
25% chance of getting a female Blue
25% chance of getting a female Green/Blue
25% chance of getting a male Blue
25% chance of getting a male Green/Blue

WOW ! you guys really have this to a science! Thank you!

spook1 wrote: WOW ! you guys really have this to a science! Thank you!

It takes a while to learn this stuff, but if you are going to breed for color, you NEED to learn it.

And it IS a science.
I'm not into genetics, so this stuff was/is hard for me to learn.
I use the genetic forecaster a LOT when planning my breeding.
The more you use it, the more you learn.

Unfortunately the forecaster works going forward, not backwards.
For going backwards, you need to know something about the genetics, and have played with the forecaster enough to know the end result of different combinations. But for a new color, such as pastel (for me), it is hard.

ac12 wrote: Unfortunately the forecaster works going forward, not backwards.
For going backwards, you need to know something about the genetics, and have played with the forecaster enough to know the end result of different combinations. But for a new color, such as pastel (for me), it is hard.

But thankfully one exists! Thanks to our member hanabi

http://www.ohmifinch.com/research/gould ... cs/grg.asp

Thanks for the mention GouldianGuy.

I need to do more work on the reverse calculator to make it more user friendly and the search results more relevant. If you've used a forward calculator before you will see that there are usually only a handful of results, but for a reverse calculator there can be thousands of combinations of parent phenotypes that produce your desired offspring phenotype. Currently my reverse calculator only provides the "top 50" parent pair combinations (those pairings that have the highest probability of providing your desired offspring) due to the high computational load the reverse calculation requires.

Also, among the results there are often cases where one of the parents already has the desired offspring phenotype. E.g., when your target is a Silver Gouldian offspring there are many results that include a Silver hen or cock parent. Such results are not very helpful, so in later updates to the calculator I will filter them out by default.

In any case, the "bare bones' are there for reverse calculation at least.

Cheers,

Ross

Glaced at this calculator. Rarely you should pair Blue to Blue and never Pastel Blue ("silver") to Pastel Blue ("silver"). Is there a way too eliminate those so people don't think it's acceptable?

Hello debbie276.

Thanks for the feedback. Silvers here in Japan are literally "as strong as oxes"; we fortunately see no increased rate of mortality when compared to the normal phenotype. Blues are still the "problem child" though. I can get them through to 9 months without any trouble but then tend to lose around 50% by the time they approach a year old.

But in any case blue-to-blue and silver-to-silver search results should be removed for the reason I stated in my previous reply. People who want a blue (or silver) offspring will usually not have blue (or silver) parents to begin with, so providing search results containing blue (or silver) parents is perhaps a little pointless.

Cheers,

Ross

So I understand blue to blue is not good. Here is what I think mine are hen...rh pb bb......male bh wb SFb.

Any ideas on this cross?
thanks!

spook1 wrote: So I understand blue to blue is not good. Here is what I think mine are hen...rh pb bb......male bh wb SFb.

Any ideas on this cross?
thanks!

Most likely you'll end up with Red head split to black males, or black headed females.
They'll be purple breasted split to white
Half will be blue, the other half will be green split to blue