Gouldian pair, and the intelligence of gouldians.

[Babs _Owner]

I've been busy with work, but I never take a time-out from the finches.

Some can remember my 6 eggs laid, 6 eggs hatched post a while ago. I thought the pair would be perfect (he alternated sitting like a pro and fed them for a few days). I was wrong. As soon as their kids vocalized, Stormy attacked and tossed. I scooped up the kids and put them back in the nest.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=60

Both Easy and Stormy seemed so deeply bonded, I put in a divider, let the hen (Easy) raise the kids right beside him, with dad watching....so he could "learn". He could only watch as she carried their clutch from hatch to wean. He wanted back in (while the kids were nestlings), but each time I introduced him, he ignored the first clutch and wanted to mate again. Easy raised the kids on her own.

I allowed the pair to breed again after the juveniles were moved to the big flight.

Happy to say, it's OFFICIAL! Stormy finally GOT IT!! And his second clutch he sat tight, fed right from day one, didnt toss when his kids vocalized like last time, and I feel confident enough to report he is truly a great father to the kids!! No mutations other than GB and BB this time, but I am MORE than excited over this victory Sorry about the blurry picture of Mom& Dad (both parents where frantically guarding the nest......which is what I LOVE to see!!)

[haroun]

Babs finally he gets the lecon haha , to be good father or the jail is waiting
congrates babs and more successful breeding season

[Babs _Owner]

Babs finally he gets the lecon haha , to be good father or the jail is waiting

Yep yep!

[lovezebs]

Babs

Hi hon,

So glad to hear that the boy finally figured it out.

[Babs _Owner]

lovezebs

Thanks girlie! Glad to get past the hurdle.

[Flight Feathers]

Babs

That's great to hear!!

[Australian finch]

Question. Does chick tossing happen often with Gouldians and should I try fostering the chicks with other parents who are sitting on eggs rather than put back in same nest with parents who tossed?
Thanking you in advance
Sindy

[Australian finch]

Sorry another question. Can you tell that I am new to this?
What are the lumpy sacs on the side of the chicks necks in the photo?
I just noticed that Wilma and Fred's one chick has the same thing. He is now about 16 days old.

[Icearstorm]

Australian finch

Gouldians are notorious for being poor parents, but many of them are good parents and raise their babies without an issue. It's hard to know which birds make good parents, but it seems to be at least partly genetic.

Generally, uninjured tossed babies can be placed back in the nest with their parents the first time, but it really depends. Some parent birds get upset when a tossed baby is returned and kill or toss it again, sometimes injuring the other babies in the process. Others accept the tossed baby and continue to raise it normally.

Great foster society finches will feed anything, so placing a tossed baby under them may be more successful. However, most birds have to be in the same breeding phase to properly foster, and some will not foster unless the eggs hatched in their nest. Many common foster species, like societies and zebra finches, can carry diseases that will kill babies of other species. Foster parents are ideally the same species as the birds they are fostering, but this isn't always practical.

Some people raise the tossed babies by hand, though it tends to be time- and energy-intensive.

The lumps on the birds' necks are their crops. The crop acts as a sort of built-in storage container where the bird holds food before swallowing and digesting it. A nestling's full crop indicates that it is being properly fed.

[Australian finch]

Thank you Icearstorm. I appreciate the help.
I checked the other nests today and there are 4 new chicks in Carmen's and Charlies nest that were not there two days ago,
Charlie was acting like he was checking out some of the other empty nests in the aviary so I am a bit worried that they are going to abandon the chicks.
Would Wilma and Fred be likely to accept them when they are so much younger than their one chick who is 15 days old now. There are two unhatched eggs in their nest.
Thank you for your help

[Icearstorm]

Australian finch

That sounds like too much of an age difference, but if they do abandon, it might be the only hope. Leave the birds alone for now; there's a good chance that the male is just curious or wants to gather more nesting material. Even if he does abandon, his mate should be able to raise them on her own.

[Babs _Owner]

Australian finch

Remove those extra nests ASAP, so Dad's focus gets off mating and back to his clutch.

I agree with Icearstorm on many points. Gouldians need to be a compatible pair, and sometimes they need to learn those wiggling babies aren't little aliens to expel from the nest. So a few tries is needed with a pair you know is bonded strong.

If a pair isn't bonded, most often nothing you can do will fix it and you need to find them different mates.

If a gouldian tosses the first time and it's not fatal, try removing the male and see if the hen raises them. However you don't want to teach the kids that only females feed, so this should not be a routine way you let your kids get raised. Try the pair again, using the method I went over above and see if the male gets to work properly.

If the hen is tossing then you can try the opposite. This isnt without risk. The 2nd tossing is usually fatal.

I use my societies very RARELY as fosters. As of this year they are no longer needed for that function and are around for my love of the species. I cannot breed society raised gouldians with my gouldian-raised gouldians. They differ too greatly in behavior. I honestly have better results hand raising emergencies, and weaning the kids in flights right beside gouldian juvies and adults.

Raising gouldians by societies is a habit you really dont want to get into if you are serious about breeding strong, future gouldian generations. Gouldians can imprint strongly to their society parents.

Gouldians are aggressive feeders, so keep and eye on the little ones. Let us know how it goes.

[Australian finch]

Very sorry to say that it looks like both Carmen and Charlie have abandoned their chicks as neither was on the nest last night before I went to bed or this morning when I got up.
I went out to lunch and checked the aviary when I got back and found one of the chicks had been tossed and neither parent on the nest in the last hour I have been watching.
I have put the tossed chick into Wilma and Fred's nest and I'm hoping for the best. I will spend the afternoon on the patio and if neither come back to the nest in next 4 hours I will check and see if the chicks are still in there and alive.
I am not hopeful but all my birds are young and completely inexperienced so probably not unexpected to have a failure at the beginning. I am on a steep learning curve.
Thank you all for your help and advice.

[Babs _Owner]

Australian finch

Gouldian's chicks usually hatch all within a day of each other. Hen sits tight on evening 6 so they all begin to incubate at the same time.

Your parents wont always sit on a 15 day old chick (he is able to retain more of his own heat), so tossing the "extras" would be predictable behavior.

At this point I would take all the little chicks out and give to the societies and hope they will feed the 15 day old chick that remains.

Be sure all other nests are removed. A little tip: Next time your parents double-clutch (Lay more eggs when they have chicks in the nest), simply remove them as soon as she is done laying and toss them. ;)

[Australian finch]

Thank you Babs.
The tossed chick belonged to Carmen and Charlie who have completely abandoned the nest and did not go near it in the 5 hours I watched them this afternoon.
I decided to see if the other chicks were still alive but found the nest was completely empty. I searched for the other chicks but had no luck finding them. The aviary is quite large (3.6mx1.8m) with lots of native grasses growing in there so in the fading light I must have missed them. I am not sure how far the parents can toss a chick.
Unfortunately I don't have any other type of birds except Gouldians so my only potential foster parents are Wilma and Fred who have the 15 day old chick. I am not hopeful that Wilma and Fred will feed the foster chick and not do as you predict and toss it, but I have no other options as I work and cannot take holidays as I have only been at my new job for two months. I just have to hope they will accept it.